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 Post subject: 2025 Hall of Fame Class
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 9:18 pm 
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I was a big fan of Ichiro as a player, but never read up on him. A lot of interesting content in this (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jaws-and-th ... ro-suzuki/) article. Including:

When Ichiro was 3, Nobuyuki [his father] bought him his first glove, made of shiny leather. It cost two weeks’ salary. Nobuyuki taught his son to clean and polish it carefully. It wasn’t a toy, he said. It was a tool. He taught his right-handed son to hit lefty, to gain a few extra steps out of the batter’s box. They went to a nearby park, every day the same: 50 pitches, 200 soft-toss swings and 50 fungo drills. At night, they went to a batting cage near the Nagoya airport and Ichiro would take 250 to 300 swings on a pitching machine....

In elementary school, he wrote in an essay that he played with other children only two or three days a year. Once Ichiro didn’t want to practice baseball. He wanted to run around with his friends, so he defiantly sat down in the middle of the field. A furious Nobuyuki started throwing baseballs at his son, but Ichiro’s fast reflexes allowed him to avoid them. Ones aimed directly for his face he easily caught.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:10 am 
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already filled mine out

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 7:53 pm 
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Dick Allen in.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 8:45 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Dick Allen in.

Dick All-In.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2024 6:15 am 
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Dave Parker too. in my opinion, Parker was always borderline, but I always nudged him as to should be in in my mind, but the Harold Bains induction really is opening up the door for below borderline players. JORR is gonna see the day when Dwight Evans is in enshrined someday.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 6:52 pm 
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CC fucking Sabathia ?? Really ??? Ichiro misses unanimous by 1 vote .

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:21 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
CC fucking Sabathia ?? Really ??? Ichiro misses unanimous by 1 vote .


I don’t have an issue with this class. Looked at Sabathias stats just now. In modern baseball these are likely going to be HOF worthy:

251 wins
3093 strikeouts
Averaged roughly 188 innings pitched a year for 19 seasons
62.3 WAR
1.250 WHIP

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:44 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
CC fucking Sabathia


Yankee bias.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 8:38 pm 
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T-Bone wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
CC fucking Sabathia ?? Really ??? Ichiro misses unanimous by 1 vote .


I don’t have an issue with this class. Looked at Sabathias stats just now. In modern baseball these are likely going to be HOF worthy:

251 wins
3093 strikeouts
Averaged roughly 188 innings pitched a year for 19 seasons
62.3 WAR
1.250 WHIP

Yeah, if CC isn't qualified, then there is probably nobody pre-arb in MLB who ever has a shot, because they are never going to top 200 IP in a season.

It's ridiculous that Fergie Jenkins has more CG in one season than Adam Wainwright had in his entire career, and Wainwright was the active leader until he retired with 29.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 8:45 pm 
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Buehrle screwed again.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 9:35 pm 
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I'm a no on Sabathia. I think the new Hall of Fame standard for pitchers is Kershaw/Scherzer/Verlander and Sabathia does not measure up to that standard.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 9:51 pm 
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Warren Newson wrote:
I'm a no on Sabathia. I think the new Hall of Fame standard for pitchers is Kershaw/Scherzer/Verlander and Sabathia does not measure up to that standard.

He is like Luis Tiant to me. Good enough that I'm not distressed that he got in, but not good enough that his omission would have been an insult.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 9:59 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
I'm a no on Sabathia. I think the new Hall of Fame standard for pitchers is Kershaw/Scherzer/Verlander and Sabathia does not measure up to that standard.

He is like Luis Tiant to me. Good enough that I'm not distressed that he got in, but not good enough that his omission would have been an insult.

Well-said.

He did quit on his team that one year, but if he was a drunk, maybe he would not have helped them much. Plus, fuck the Yankees.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:01 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Buehrle screwed again.

hall of very good

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:05 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
I'm a no on Sabathia. I think the new Hall of Fame standard for pitchers is Kershaw/Scherzer/Verlander and Sabathia does not measure up to that standard.

He is like Luis Tiant to me. Good enough that I'm not distressed that he got in, but not good enough that his omission would have been an insult.


That's true of so many guys, Mauer and Rolen being some of the most recent examples.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:50 pm 
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El Tommo wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
I'm a no on Sabathia. I think the new Hall of Fame standard for pitchers is Kershaw/Scherzer/Verlander and Sabathia does not measure up to that standard.

He is like Luis Tiant to me. Good enough that I'm not distressed that he got in, but not good enough that his omission would have been an insult.

Well-said.

He did quit on his team that one year, but if he was a drunk, maybe he would not have helped them much. Plus, fuck the Yankees.

On the other hand, he was a beast as a rental for the Brewers to drag them into the playoffs.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:11 am 
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El Tommo wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
I'm a no on Sabathia. I think the new Hall of Fame standard for pitchers is Kershaw/Scherzer/Verlander and Sabathia does not measure up to that standard.

He is like Luis Tiant to me. Good enough that I'm not distressed that he got in, but not good enough that his omission would have been an insult.

Well-said.

He did quit on his team that one year, but if he was a drunk, maybe he would not have helped them much. Plus, fuck the Yankees.

I would keep him out just for that one year he bailed on the Yankees in the playoffs. Are you telling me they couldn't just hire someone for a few weeks to babysit the guy?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:34 am 
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Met him in Palm Springs when the Angels trained there. They wanted my little cousin to be on the Angels media guide. Of course he refused. So here comes Frank Tanana to try to persuade him to do it. He still refused.

Has comparable if not better numbers than CCS except W-L %.

https://baseballcraziness.com/2025/01/1 ... fame-vote/


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:56 am 
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RFDC wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Buehrle screwed again.

hall of very good



I'm fine with that but Tom Glavine is in that category too and he's in.

Glavine = Pettitte = Buehrle

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:58 am 
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RFDC wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Buehrle screwed again.

hall of very good


Agreed, but his stats are basically the same as Sabathia’s, plus he had a perfect game and another no hitter facing the minimum.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:42 am 
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JORR wrote:
RFDC wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Buehrle screwed again.

hall of very good



I'm fine with that but Tom Glavine is in that category too and he's in.

Glavine = Pettitte = Buehrle


Glavine's numbers are better than Buehrle. Specifically 305 Wins Compared to 214 wins.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:46 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
RFDC wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Buehrle screwed again.

hall of very good


Agreed, but his stats are basically the same as Sabathia’s, plus he had a perfect game and another no hitter facing the minimum.

And the World Series performance, consistency, longevity, etc.

Just put him in and then we can have the convo on how deserving he is afterwards.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:50 am 
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Sabbathia is definitely a better argument for Buehrle than Glavine. I think you can make the case for Buehrle being as good if not better than Sabbathia.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:58 am 
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Sabathia, at his best, was the best in the league and he sustained his best. Buehrle was never the best pitcher in baseball.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:01 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Sabbathia is definitely a better argument for Buehrle than Glavine. I think you can make the case for Buehrle being as good if not better than Sabbathia.

The case for Buerhle is actually pretty strong.

the article linked below wrote:
The only pitchers in the Modern Era with 14 consecutive seasons of 200 innings are Buehrle, Christy Mathewson (1901-14), Warren Spahn (1947-63), Gaylord Perry (1966-80), Greg Maddux (1988-2001), Phil Niekro (1967-80) and Don Sutton (1966-80). Six of those seven pitchers are in the Hall of Fame. The other is Buehrle.

Just how rare was it for Buehrle to do what he did when he did it? His 3,232 innings from 2001-15 were not only the most in the Majors during that span, but he pitched 243 1/3 more innings than any other pitcher

Few pitchers, if any, fielded their position better than Buehrle. For starters, Buehrle racked up 87 career Defensive Runs Saved -- and FanGraphs didn’t even start tracking it until 2003. To put that number in perspective, Buehrle’s 87 DRS are tied with Greinke for the most by any pitcher during that span, despite the fact that Buehrle -- who averaged 6.7 DRS per season -- is missing 3 1/2 season’s worth of data.

Buehrle forced opposing hitters to ground into 362 double plays. That’s the fourth most by any pitchers since the stat was tracked in 1974, trailing only Greg Maddux (422), Tom Glavine (421) and Pettitte (363).

He picked off 102 baserunners during his career, which ranks fourth since 1974, behind only Steve Carlton (118), Mark Langston (105) and Andy Pettitte (103).
Since 1910, only two players have thrown at least 3,000 innings and allowed fewer stolen bases than the 59 swiped with Buehrle on the mound…

Buehrle remains one of only 23 pitchers to throw a perfect game -- and one of only seven to throw both a perfect game and another no-hitter. The other six are Sandy Koufax, Cy Young, Roy Halladay, Randy Johnson, Jim Bunning and Addie Joss. All six are in the Hall of Fame.
He was a five-time All-Star and four-time Gold Glover. He was 2-0 with a 3.47 ERA and a save in four playoff appearances in 2005 when the White Sox won the World Series for the first time since the Black Sox scandal.

By WAR, Buehrle was the 2nd best pitcher in baseball from 2000-15
His career 60.0 WAR puts him in 50th place in the modern game (1901 and later). A career WAR of 60.0 puts him ahead of 19 Hall of Fame starting pitchers. He’s barely behind well-regarded inductees Don Drysdale, and Jim Bunning.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mark-buehrle-h ... icle-share

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:19 am 
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Warren Newson wrote:
I'm a no on Sabathia. I think the new Hall of Fame standard for pitchers is Kershaw/Scherzer/Verlander and Sabathia does not measure up to that standard.

So you aren’t going to want pitchers in moving forward if you don’t want Sabathia in, very few pitchers going forward will have better numbers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:20 am 
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RFDC wrote:
JORR wrote:
RFDC wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Buehrle screwed again.

hall of very good



I'm fine with that but Tom Glavine is in that category too and he's in.

Glavine = Pettitte = Buehrle


Glavine's numbers are better than Buehrle. Specifically 305 Wins Compared to 214 wins.



Their numbers are very similar. Glavine also has about 40 more losses than Buehrle.

They're pretty much the same guy. I have no issue with you saying he's not a Hall of Fame guy. But one of them already is.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:23 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Sabbathia is definitely a better argument for Buehrle than Glavine. I think you can make the case for Buehrle being as good if not better than Sabbathia.



I would argue that Sabathia is better than both Buehrle and Glavine. He could strike guys out in a way that they could not.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:31 am 
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It is all going to be a moot point more than likely. They are going to have to adjust the standards for pitching moving forward or no one is going to get in. So Buehrle will be deserving at that point.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:35 am 
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Joe "Pitching wins don't matter" Road Rod is making some interesting points.

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