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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Just when it looked like the Cubs might try to cut their payroll as many other teams (like the Sox) are doing, they have now stated the expectation of having a payroll in excess of 140 million in 2009. Jim Hendry is still interested in aquiring Jake Peavy from the Padres, even though they got Dempster back, and may even agree to pay as much as 4 million of Jason Marquis' contract for 2009, as Marquis would be included in the deal-if it's made. In addition, the Cubs still plan to aquire another left handed outfielder and are still looking to aquire Brian Roberts, to bat leadoff. Things are looking very good for 2009, on the North side of town!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:44 pm 
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And they raised ticket prices again. Someone has to bail Hendry out for leaving so many holes on this team.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:52 pm 
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He had what? 8 all-stars in 2008....Not really too many holes and it looks like he's going to fill the few they had. As far as higher ticket prices-I would rather pay a bit more and have a great team, than have a team that struggles to contend. I enjoyed the Cubs having the best record in the whole league in 2008. With an even better team in 2009....Let the good times roll....... :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:14 pm 
If it results in Peavy, Roberts, and a OF that matters (Dunn, Abreu) then come talk to me. Otherwise with the ticket increase AGAIN, I'll just be happy with friends that have company tix.

I know he's a righty, but you think SF might want to dump Grindy to clear some salary space for CC?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:29 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
I enjoyed the Cubs having the best record in the whole league in 2008. With an even better team in 2009

Phillies and Rays fans enjoyed 2008 a hellava lot more. Cubs had a drastically better team from '07 to '08 too, with the same lackluster October results. Its fans like you Steve that crack me up when the Cubs do fail.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:34 pm 
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Quote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
I enjoyed the Cubs having the best record in the whole league in 2008. With an even better team in 2009


Steve that means nothing, who is going to remember that the cubs had the best nl record in 2008? Who cares? For me Steve, every year they dont win it, the season doesnt matter, sure there were some good games, but at this point, almost 40 years as a fan, only a world series would make me happy. If they win it, I dont care after that, a 90 win season will make me happy after a ws win, some sox fans were happy with that following their ws championship, some were happy with one win in the playoffs this year, why? Because they can fall back on 2005, which I understand, thats where I want to be as a cubs fan.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:49 pm 
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RodeoVann wrote:
Quote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
I enjoyed the Cubs having the best record in the whole league in 2008. With an even better team in 2009


Steve that means nothing, who is going to remember that the cubs had the best nl record in 2008? Who cares? For me Steve, every year they dont win it, the season doesnt matter, sure there were some good games, but at this point, almost 40 years as a fan, only a world series would make me happy. If they win it, I dont care after that, a 90 win season will make me happy after a ws win, some sox fans were happy with that following their ws championship, some were happy with one win in the playoffs this year, why? Because they can fall back on 2005, which I understand, thats where I want to be as a cubs fan.


:evil: DING DING DING! :cry:

The Bulls sucking doesn't bother me because we had MJ with 6 HAPPY ENDINGS.
The Bears need to get another Superbowl, but 1985 resonates with me... perhaps because I had a happy ending after the Superbowl. 8)
The Cubs continue to drive me nuttier than squirrel shit with their absolutely maddening, mindboggling failures. 110 wins wouldn't fucking matter without the ring. Nice games along the way, sure.

BFD.

Win the whole thing and then I can enjoy regular seasons as a whole. Until then, they are all but meaningless.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:51 pm 
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The point is, that the team has continued to improve. From 2006 to 2007, there was much needed improvement. More still from 2007-2008. Now it appears that they are going to further improve the team, giving all Cubs fans an even greater chance at finally getting the Championship that we all desire so much. Rather than taking any steps back in the level of talent on the ballclub, there has been a steady improvement that continues even though the talent level was already at such a high level that they had 8 all stars and a National League best record. Some teams might sit back and just count the money coming in from the 3.3 million fans that will again buy their tickets and perhaps decide to cut the payroll a bit. But this team is going to increase the payroll and further improve an already contending team. I am very happy thats the case.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:00 am 
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Cubs will not win with this team.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:11 am 
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until hendry makes a big move i don't really see the cubs being any better in 09, and they may be a little worse...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:18 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The point is, that the team has continued to improve. From 2006 to 2007, there was much needed improvement. More still from 2007-2008. Now it appears that they are going to further improve the team, giving all Cubs fans an even greater chance at finally getting the Championship that we all desire so much. Rather than taking any steps back in the level of talent on the ballclub, there has been a steady improvement that continues even though the talent level was already at such a high level that they had 8 all stars and a National League best record. Some teams might sit back and just count the money coming in from the 3.3 million fans that will again buy their tickets and perhaps decide to cut the payroll a bit. But this team is going to increase the payroll and further improve an already contending team. I am very happy thats the case.


DING DING DING...

As a long times Cubs fan who would watch the likes of Greg Maddux leave and be replaced with Jose Guzman....I prefer the way the Cubs are being run now and they can almost start to be looked at as a perennial winner. You have to get to the dance to actually dance...and they are trying to build a WS winner.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:08 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The point is, that the team has continued to improve. From 2006 to 2007, there was much needed improvement. More still from 2007-2008. Now it appears that they are going to further improve the team, giving all Cubs fans an even greater chance at finally getting the Championship that we all desire so much. Rather than taking any steps back in the level of talent on the ballclub, there has been a steady improvement that continues even though the talent level was already at such a high level that they had 8 all stars and a National League best record. Some teams might sit back and just count the money coming in from the 3.3 million fans that will again buy their tickets and perhaps decide to cut the payroll a bit. But this team is going to increase the payroll and further improve an already contending team. I am very happy thats the case.


Steve, just because their payroll is going up doesn't mean they're adding more talent. They have a shit-ton of back loaded contracts (Jason Marquis is going from making 5 million in the first year of his contract to almost 10 this year). Soriano, D-Lee, Ramirez...all of their contracts are back loaded. There payroll was going to go up regardless of adding any talent.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:30 am 
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The MOST over-used word when discussing the Cubs? "Backloaded". Listen peeps, every multi-year contract on every team in every sport is "backloaded". No one ever gets their highest paid years up front with decreasing salaries later. Never. It would be bad business on the part of any team to do that. Please refrain from mentioning that word in association with the Cubs anymore - its understood and assumed. As it is for every team.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:02 pm 
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Wow, is that a ridiculously WRONG statement. Kenny rarely back-loads his contracts and when he does it's at reasonable yearly upgrades. Some of Hendry's contracts have more than DOUBLED from the first year to the last. Add the no-trade clauses and you can see why the cubs have so little wiggle room.

Mark Buehrle lhp
signed extension with White Sox 7/8/07
08:$14M, 09:$14M, 10:$14M, 11:$14M

Paul Konerko 1b
5 years/$60M (2006-10)
06:$12M, 07:$12M, 08:$12M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M

Javier Vazquez rhp
3 years/$34.5M (2008-10)
08:$11.5M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$11.5M

Jose Contreras rhp
3 years/$29M (2007-09)
07:$9M, 08:$10M, 09:$10M

Jermaine Dye of
2 years/$22M (2008-09), plus 2010 mutual option
08:$9.5M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$12M

A.J. Pierzynski c
3 years/$18.35M (2008-10)
08:$5.85M, 09:$6.25M, 10:$6.25M

Alexei Ramirez inf
4 years/$4.75M (2008-11)
08:$0.95M, 09:$1.1M, 10:$1.1M, 11:$1.1M

Scott Linebrink rhp
4 years/$19M (2008-11)
08:$4M, 09:$4.5M, 10:$5M, 11:$5.5M

Octavio Dotel rhp
2 years/$11M (2008-09)
08:$5M, 09:$6M


Carlos Zambrano rhp
08:$15M, 09:$17.75M, 10:$17.875M, 11:$17.875M, 12:$18M, 13:$19.25M vesting player option

Aramis Ramirez 3b
5 years/$75M (2007-11), plus 2012 club option
07:$8M, 08:$14M, 09:$15.65M, 10:$15.75M, 11:$14.6M player option, 12:$16M club option

Alfonso Soriano of
8 years/$136M (2007-14)
07:$9M, 08:$13M, 09:$16M, 10:$18M, 11:$18M, 12:$18M, 13:$18M, 14:$18M

Ryan Dempster rhp
4 years/$52M (2009-12)
09:$8M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$13.5M, 12:$14M player option

Ted Lilly lhp
4 years/$40M (2007-10)
07:$5M, 08:$7M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M

Kosuke Fukudome of
4 years/$48M (2008-11)
08:$6M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$13M, 11:$13.5M

Jason Marquis rhp
3 years/$21M (2007-09)
07:$4.75M, 08:$6.375M, 09:$9.875M

Mark DeRosa inf
3 years/$13M (2007-09)
07:$2.75M, 08:$4.75M, 09:$5.5M


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:17 pm 
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spanky wrote:
The MOST over-used word when discussing the Cubs? "Backloaded". Listen peeps, every multi-year contract on every team in every sport is "backloaded". No one ever gets their highest paid years up front with decreasing salaries later. Never. It would be bad business on the part of any team to do that. Please refrain from mentioning that word in association with the Cubs anymore - its understood and assumed. As it is for every team.

Thank you.


I agree that a lot of teams have players with backloaded contracts. That's not the point. The point is, the Cubs' payroll is increasing because of backloaded contracts...not because they are going to go out and add crazy talent to the roster. Sure, they might get Peavy, but they had to sacrifice Wood in order to do so. And if you want to see backloaded contract defined, take a look at Peavy's contract.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Wow, is that a ridiculously WRONG statement. Kenny rarely back-loads his contracts and when he does it's at reasonable yearly upgrades. Some of Hendry's contracts have more than DOUBLED from the first year to the last. Add the no-trade clauses and you can see why the cubs have so little wiggle room.

Mark Buehrle lhp
signed extension with White Sox 7/8/07
08:$14M, 09:$14M, 10:$14M, 11:$14M

Paul Konerko 1b
5 years/$60M (2006-10)
06:$12M, 07:$12M, 08:$12M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M

Javier Vazquez rhp
3 years/$34.5M (2008-10)
08:$11.5M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$11.5M

Jose Contreras rhp
3 years/$29M (2007-09)
07:$9M, 08:$10M, 09:$10M

Jermaine Dye of
2 years/$22M (2008-09), plus 2010 mutual option
08:$9.5M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$12M

A.J. Pierzynski c
3 years/$18.35M (2008-10)
08:$5.85M, 09:$6.25M, 10:$6.25M

Alexei Ramirez inf
4 years/$4.75M (2008-11)
08:$0.95M, 09:$1.1M, 10:$1.1M, 11:$1.1M

Scott Linebrink rhp
4 years/$19M (2008-11)
08:$4M, 09:$4.5M, 10:$5M, 11:$5.5M

Octavio Dotel rhp
2 years/$11M (2008-09)
08:$5M, 09:$6M

Um, none of those are "frontloaded". The first three have equal salaries every year, all of the rest are "backloaded". Care to try again? You'll be wasting your time......

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:25 pm 
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spanky wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Wow, is that a ridiculously WRONG statement. Kenny rarely back-loads his contracts and when he does it's at reasonable yearly upgrades. Some of Hendry's contracts have more than DOUBLED from the first year to the last. Add the no-trade clauses and you can see why the cubs have so little wiggle room.



Um, none of those are "frontloaded". The first three have equal salaries every year, all of the rest are "backloaded". Care to try again? You'll be wasting your time......


I couldn't agree more. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:34 pm 
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Lets call a spade a spade. We have some Sox fans who deep down, are jealous that the Cubs will continue to improve an already contending team and spend even more money. Meanwhile their team is engaging in a salary dump and will be rebuilding and likely to slip in the standings. Get used to the idea....

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:33 pm 
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A. Sox are not salary dumping, they are improving.

B. I am not jealous of the Cubs in any way, shape, or form.

C. How did the Cubs improve in October from '07 to '08? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:12 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Lets call a spade a spade.

:shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:16 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
A. Sox are not salary dumping, they are improving.:

Dat's rite. Lots of teams improve by getting rid of their top players.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:08 pm 
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Gavin Floyd > Freddy Garcia
Carlos Quentin > no name 1st base prospect
Scott Podsednik > Carlos Lee (in terms of how the '05 team was built)
John Danks > Brandon McCarthy
Griffey > Nick Masset

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:50 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
A. Sox are not salary dumping, they are improving.



I know Vasquez struggled down the stretch, but as a 4th starter he isn't bad.

You are replacing him with Clayton Richard and Jeff Marquez, not sure how this is improving the rotation.

And Cabrera was a pretty good last year, not sure how replacing him with unproven minor league talent, Getz, Nix, etc is improving.

The Sox won't have Crede and Uribe, who was pretty good defensively last year.

Yeah the Sox have really improved so far this year :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am 
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enigma wrote:
And Cabrera was a pretty good last year, not sure how replacing him with unproven minor league talent, Getz, Nix, etc is improving.

Wrong. Alexi is replacing OC. That "unproven minor league talent" will be replacing Uribe at 2nd base.

The offseason is far from over.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:32 am 
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Thats right. Kenny still has to move Dye for some minor leaguers!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:40 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
C. How did the Cubs improve in October from '07 to '08?


They led for 2 or 3 FULL innings.

All the good will that was built up over 97 Wins was destroyed by 3 October nights.
I dont know how anyone can still get excited for off season moves. It just so random with injuries, career years, and teams that win in the regular season dont always win in the playoffs. The Cubs never had a better shot than last year IMO. So as Ive said before until they re in a clinching playoff game I wont be excited.

With all that said obviously they have to keep trying and Peavy is a stud. I like that they keep spending. Im not gonna celebrate anymore december january championships for the Cubs though. Sometimes I just shake my head at Cub fans that are still optimistic. God Bless em. They can celebrate Santos undeserving trip to Cooperstown I guess.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:11 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
enigma wrote:
And Cabrera was a pretty good last year, not sure how replacing him with unproven minor league talent, Getz, Nix, etc is improving.

Wrong. Alexi is replacing OC. That "unproven minor league talent" will be replacing Uribe at 2nd base.

The offseason is far from over.


Yes, I know Alexei is replacing OC at shortstop, but you must still essentially replace Cabrera with another infielder. OK who is replacing Alexei at second? who is then playing third?

And you have yet to indicate how the Sox have improved this year as you stated in an earlier statement. Yes the offseason is far from over but if Elmhurst Steve had made such a statement, you would have labeled him another clueless cool-aid drinking Cub fan. Along with another witty :roll: Cub remark.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:13 pm 
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I'd probably reserve this excitement over the Cubs increasing their payroll by any amount. With their parent company the Trib filing for bankruptcy protection today, it virtually guarantees that any transaction the Cubs make going forward that increases payroll will somehow/someway need approval of a US Bankruptcy Court/Jurisdiction approval.

Even though the Trib filed for Chapter 11, it doesn't necesairly mean the Cubs as a subsidiary did. However, any transaction taking place that isn't revolved around selling off assets (such as the Cubs) will need some type of Court approval.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:40 pm 
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I have to admit that it's encouraging to see that Hendry's trying to make some changes for the better - But I refuse to believe that we'll have a different result next year until I see it - I've been optimistic for exactly (1) year out of the (25) miserable years I've wasted being a Cubs fan, and they showed me yet another shitty end to this season - Okay, all bitterness aside (guess I'm still not over it), you just can't always buy a championship - we need to use the guys that we already have in the correct roles, and get guys in the lineup to replace those that are inconsistent, whether that's at the plate or to help improve the defense that was so weak in the playoffs - And now I'll try to talk myself off the ledge again...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:11 pm 
Ok so this three team deal with the Met and the Royal involving Marquis. Anybody heard any of the other names? is this the vaunted Mark Teahen experiment ? :roll:


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