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 Post subject: Re: OK Sox Fans
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:27 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
CF-Rowand...He gone! Traded for Thome. Hows that deal looking today? Still looking for a CF
.


Pure Cubbie analysis. That trade has been a steal for the Sox.


Thome had a couple of solid years, no doubt. In 2006 he was really good. But last year, his bat was slow. He has to cheat on the fastball now, as his bat-speed has diminished. As a result, he strikes out much more, as he's way ahead of the off speed pitches and can't hold up. Meanwhile, Rowand is still a solid CF and hitter, with several years still ahead of him, at peak performance. Thome will long be retired, while Rowand continues. If the Sox did not have Thome, they would just put Konerko there and get a better first baseman to handle that position. Konerkp's skills as a fielder, have eroded even more than his skills as a batter. All this, is why I ask-How's that trade looking today?


1) Thome, even at his worst, was one of the better DH last year.
2) If you remember (which I'm sure you do not) the Sox were in desperate need of a LH bat in the middle of their lineup during and after 05.
3) The Phillies have paid for 50% of Thome's contract resulting in the Sox paying a 35 HR hitter about 5-6 million per year. He is a bargain
4) Rowand is not on the Phillies, but Thome is on the Sox.
5) Rowand makes 12 million per year, which is not a bargain.
6) Take a look at Rowand's stats from 06-08 and tell me how much you like him.

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 Post subject: Re: OK Sox Fans
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:29 pm 
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2004 Red Sox that were moved
Derek Lowe
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
Keith Foulke
Kevin Millar
Johnny Damon
Orlando Cabrera
Bronson Arroyo

2008 WS Champion Boston Red Sox


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 Post subject: Re: OK Sox Fans
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:32 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
[
The point is that you seem to have a problem with the White Sox not keeping a majority of the starters from 2005. .


The truly laughable point of the premise is that KW attributes KEEPING too many 05 players to the collapse of the 06 team.

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 Post subject: Re: OK Sox Fans
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:53 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
[
The point is that you seem to have a problem with the White Sox not keeping a majority of the starters from 2005. .


The truly laughable point of the premise is that KW attributes KEEPING too many 05 players to the collapse of the 06 team.


I would hardly call 90 wins a collapse. That's what they had in 2006. But I do see your point. Actually, maybe you meant the 2007 Sox.


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 Post subject: Re: OK Sox Fans
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Okay, since you asked- I think that when Carlos Quentin got hurt last season, they should have traded to get Podsednik back. He was healthy and productive when he played and can still run. Plus, they still need a leadoff hitter big-time. I liked Iguchi a lot. I never would have let him go. Having him hit #2, with Ramirex at SS, would be great. Uribe, I actually never liked. Crede-you can't help it. He just has a bad back and you can't depend on him. But Rowand is a guy that would help you a lot more today than Thome. Imagine Pod's in the DH role, batting leadoff, Iguchi second, Quentin in left batting third, Dye in RF bats 4th, Rowand in CF bats 5th, Pierzynski 6th, Ramirez 7th, If you could get a nice upgrade at 3rd and if by some stroke of luck, trade Konerko, I think its a good lineup.

It would be better if they would spend more money, but I'm trying to stay within the constraints of the Sox budget, which seems to have been reduced. Otherwise, I might suggest signing Furcal to play short and leaving Ramirez at 2B, or trading for Roberts. Either one, gives you the leadoff man needed. But they probably don't have the needed minor league/major league talent needed to swing a deal for Roberts. Unless they want to trade Floyd/Danks, which I would never believe prudent.

There are any number of moves the Sox could have made at the trading deadline. It still doesn't mean that an underperforming player should have been kept at the time that Pods was sent packing.
Iguchi was alright, but I don't think it made much of a difference.

Your biggest failure of logic is Rowand. The Sox could have had Rowand last year had they wanted to pay him what he could get from another team. If they don't trade for Thome, they still likely don't have Rowand last year because he ended up changing teams. The Sox got at least one extra year of Jim Thome who has been productive here. It was a great move and the Sox still had the option of signing Rowand. The Sox still have a benefit of that trade as I think Thome is still valuable whereas they would have had no benefit from watching Rowand walk away.

The point is that you seem to have a problem with the White Sox not keeping a majority of the starters from 2005. When you compare the production of the 2008 White Sox players individually to how those players on the championship team are playing in 2008 you can't make an argument that the turnover wasn't a positive.


Well, I believe it was Podsednik that was the key player on that 2005 team. When he was out of the lineup, they faltered big time. When he returned, they were back to form. Without a true leadoff hitter, it's very tough to win it all. Iguchi was perhaps the most underrated player on that team. His ability to take enough pitches for Podsednik to steal a base and/or hit behind him, made for a tremendous combination. I would take a guy like Pods over a slugger like Thome any day. I know I am in the minority on this. But Thome is all or nothing. Against average or lesser pitching, he like many of the Sox players, can put up big numbers. But they cannot manufacture runs. So against top shelf pitching, they are lost, all too often. Thats why Ozzie and Kenny are getting rid of the old, slow, sluggers and will be loading up on fast, athletic players, who can put more pressure on the opposing teams pitching and defense. Thats why I want guys like Roberts and Furcal on the Cubs too. I do not like the guys like Soriano, even if they can hit 30 homers. In a couple years, this Sox team will be the kind of team that will be very entertaining to watch. But I think that Rowand is the kind of guy you win with, as is Iguchi, as is Podsednik-when healthy. The guy they should have let go, was Konerko.

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 Post subject: Re: OK Sox Fans
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:09 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Well, I believe it was Podsednik that was the key player on that 2005 team.

Wrong again.
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