It loooks like Pie and Hill are just about done with the Cubs. Once again a prime example of the Cubs holding onto prospects way too long until they are completely devoid of value ala Corey Patterson. I would still bet that Cedeno makes the club as a backup at least he can hit major league pitching.

CHICAGO -- Felix Pie was the Cubs' center fielder of the future. Rich Hill seemed to be on the verge of being a fixture in the rotation for years to come.
Cubs general manager Jim Hendry made it clear Wednesday the team can't wait for the two to figure it out.

Pie and Hill are out of options, which means they will either make the Cubs' 25-man roster, clear waivers and stay in the organization -- which is unlikely -- or wind up someplace else.

Ronny Cedeno and Angel Guzman also are out of options. Cedeno has value as a utility infielder. Guzman, who has been slowed by injuries, could rally.

But Pie and Hill?

"Rich has gone from a very quality starter in the National League to having a disastrous-type season," Hendry said of the lefty, who led the Cubs in strikeouts and won 11 games in 2007 but struggled last season. "In winter ball, he was very up and down again. This is the big leagues. You've got to earn what you get."

The same is true for Pie, who batted .241 in 43 games last season with the Cubs, while hitting .287 at Triple-A Iowa.

"Felix obviously played very well defensively and has not come around with the bat," Hendry said. "It's tough. We don't have the luxury here to say, 'Let's run somebody out there for 140, 150 games and see if they can hit.'

"We're here to win. We're here to try to win a championship. When you get to the big leagues, it's not about development as much anymore as winning ballgames. It's no different than anything else in life. You earn the lot you have."

The Cubs acquired free agent Joey Gathright this offseason, and the speedy outfielder can do what the team has wanted Pie to do.

"Two or three years ago, Pie was a better looking prospect than [Ryan] Theriot or [Geovany] Soto," Hendry said. "Obviously, those two guys have earned their stripes and Felix hasn't yet. He's still a young man, and sometimes the bat comes later for people."

Theriot impressed Cubs manager Lou Piniella in Spring Training during 2007 and eventually earned the starting shortstop job, while Soto was tabbed the regular catcher last season and won National League Rookie of the Year.

Pie just hasn't progressed at the plate. The Cubs don't feel they can wait. Last year was the 100th anniversary of the last time the Cubs won a World Series, and Hendry and Piniella grew weary of reminders.

The Cubs did win the NL Central for the second consecutive year, and they did post the best record in the NL last year. But getting swept in the postseason back to back is what fans remember.

"The thing I would remind people of starting today and tell the players in Spring Training, it's not easy to win the division," Hendry said. "There's an assumption, how are we going to do better in the playoffs? You better get there first.

"We'll address how we'll handle the playoffs once we know we're in them again. It's a long way from a lock."

And so are Pie and Hill.

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Rarely have I seen a guy free of injuries, just lose it, like Rich Hill did. I have all but written him off and would be surprised if he makes the team out of spring training. Shocked actually. Felix Pie has a lot of athletic ability, but would probably develop better on a team like the Royals or Pirates, where there is less pressure and the expectations would not be as great. I see him moving on too. Cedeno will stay. He's the only legitimate backup at shortstop and with DeRosa gone, is probably the #1 backup at third now too. Guzman was a guy that was supposed to be better than Zambrano, when the two were coming up together. But injury after injury have taken a toll and I wonder if he's ever going to be the pitcher many envisioned him being. He would have to have a VERY impressive spring to make the team. I'm guessing that Hendry will make sure Lou gives him a good look in spring and if he's not super impressive, Hendry will try trading him as well as Hill and Pie during spring training.

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Go Cubs!!!!

guzman = done, too many arm problems
hill = done, too many head problems
cedeno = backup infielder for cubs
pie = needs a shot to play more somewhere, done as a cub

Out of all of them, I still hold out some hope for Cedeno, though he turned into a defensive liability in a few games last year. He had a nice streak of offense and as MOFO said, could be a decent guy to spell Theriot on occasion.

Perhaps someone can help me on this. In the end, was Pie an athlete the Cubs tried to turn into a baseball player? I assume they had to know the guy cannot hit anything with movement and just hoped he would develop the ability, though its a very hard thing to develop a good eye.

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well, pie has been able to hit except for in the majors. he is still young enough where, given an opportunity to start, i think he could be a decent hitter. it seems like every at bat he gets with the cubs is a big deal for him, where he knows if he doesnt get on base his next at-bat might be in 10 days. that cant be an easy existence for a hitter. i would still have liked to see him get a chance to regularly start and see if he could maybe get something going, but now, with gaithwright, there is no way pie is going to crack this lineup, he needs to go somewhere else.

I think Pie has some natural hitting ability it's just a failure of both him and Corey Patterson to ever realize what the major league strike zone is and consistently make themselves into easy outs by chasing pitches outside of the zone. I do not know if this is a failure on their part or a failure of the Cubs minor league system to teach proper plate discipline but my guess is it is a combination of both.

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to me, the difference between patterson and pie is that patterson didnt WANT to be a leadoff/OBP hitter, he wanted to be a slugger, and he had a ridiculous uppercut swing. patterson seemed more stubborn. pie strikes me as being more willing to learn to try to do the small things well, but gets frustrated when he fails because with edmonds and fukudome and soriano and johnson and derosa out in the outfield, his chances were limited. he looked like he was really pressing with each at-bat. i dont think he is as hard-headed as patterson.

I agree with what you are saying I just honestly think that for whatever reason neither of them could comprehend the strike zone and that is what caused thair failures. Just because you are a great athlete doesnt mean you are a good baseball player.

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The downside being you end up with a team of 35 year old players. That won't fly in the NL.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

I'm still waiting for Ty Griffin to become something special.

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Guzman's not done. I think he'll be a part of the mix for the bullpen.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I think Gary Scott is going to be manning the hot corner for the next decade.

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And if he doesn't pan out, at least there's Kevin Orie.

Earl Cunningham will be better than Frank Thomas.

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You know me like that.

Bruce Kieschnick

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

the catcher that was supposed to be come up with Kerry Wood...

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I believe you are thinking of Pat Kline

2006, had Dinner at Joe Stone Crab. Our waiter claims to have been Rich Hills roomie in College and played Baseball with him at Michigan. Says the guy has the best curveball they have ever seen, but can mentally lose it and then cant even get the ball over. I think Rich Hill had a game early 2008, that he walked 4 guys in a row and then 3 in the next inning and the conversation came back into my head.

I think Lou then walked out and we never saw Rich Hill again.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Nas + Brian Cashman = Match!

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

I'm sure I brought this up before, but I was really hoping for Kevin Roberson to pan out....my all black outfield of Roberson, Derrick May, and Scott Bullett. With Ozzie Timmons on the bench...

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[quote="spmack
I'm sure I brought this up before, but I was really hoping for Kevin Roberson to pan out....my all black outfield of Roberson, Derrick May, and Scott Bullett. With Ozzie Timmons on the bench...[/quote]

If you could have only added Ced Landrum to that mix you would have really had something.

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Wow, haven't thought of Derrick May for awhile. I really thought he was going to be a good one.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Yeah, late April/early May in St. Louis. Was that the same game where the Cubs undid Hill's damage all the way up to Isringhausen's blown save only to lose it on a Skip Schumacker walkoff double? I think it was.

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If Derrick May had the same pharmacist as Luis Gonzalez he probably would have.

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Derrick May did B and B's version of Who Am I/Who can it be Now a few years ago...

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