Amare Stoudemire

SHARK · **Posted:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:28 pm

Rocks and Blows wrote:

Portland is making a push for him that includes Aldridge. I had only heard that Portland was trying to get Bosh so it's news to me. The Suns don't even want much, you'd still have Deng and Heinrich who you could deal to the Mavs for Dirk.

Rocks, the Bulls' opponent tomorrow night in a rare 6p start to accommodate TNT, the Miami Heat, is said to be dangling #2 overall pick Michael Beasley, among others in their offer for Stoudemire...Are you kidding me? I know he's not starting right now for the Heat, but why would they want to deal the second overall pick as part of an offer that I don't believe involves EXPIRING contracts like what the Bulls have with Drew Gooden & Larry Hughes? I don't get it...

Rocks and Blows · **Posted:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:45 pm

SHARK wrote:

Rocks and Blows wrote:

Portland is making a push for him that includes Aldridge. I had only heard that Portland was trying to get Bosh so it's news to me. The Suns don't even want much, you'd still have Deng and Heinrich who you could deal to the Mavs for Dirk.

Rocks, the Bulls' opponent tomorrow night in a rare 6p start to accommodate TNT, the Miami Heat, is said to be dangling #2 overall pick Michael Beasley, among others in their offer for Stoudemire...Are you kidding me? I know he's not starting right now for the Heat, but why would they want to deal the second overall pick as part of an offer that I don't believe involves EXPIRING contracts like what the Bulls have with Drew Gooden & Larry Hughes? I don't get it...

Beasley had some questions surrounding his character and apparently Miami isn't to fond of him, according to BB and rumors on th e internetz. Wade and Stodemire would make the Heat just as good as the Cavs and Celts and Wade has shown he can take over games on the biggest stage. If the Bulls don't get him I'd hate to see him in Miami.

Ex-Media Guy · **Joined:** Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:40 am **Posts:** 790

Rocks and Blows wrote:

Beasley had some questions surrounding his character and apparently Miami isn't to fond of him, according to BB and rumors on th e internetz. Wade and Stodemire would make the Heat just as good as the Cavs and Celts and Wade has shown he can take over games on the biggest stage. If the Bulls don't get him I'd hate to see him in Miami.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1390

SHARK · **Posted:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:55 pm

I'd like to know what in the hell Bulls' GM John Paxson & Uncle Jerry are waiting for then...I know the NBA All-Star Weekend starts Friday in Phoenix, but get the deal done if the Bulls have what the Suns want for Amare already! The longer this waits, the less likely it happens...

Bagels · **Posted:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:06 pm

Nas wrote:

Rocks and Blows wrote:

Portland is making a push for him that includes Aldridge. I had only heard that Portland was trying to get Bosh so it's news to me. The Suns don't even want much, you'd still have Deng and Heinrich who you could deal to the Mavs for Dirk.

I can't understand why the Blazers would make a deal like that. Aldridge is 3 years younger and isn't that far away from Amare's production. On top of the fact that he would be cheaper for a long time.

Completely agree.

ChEeZ · **Joined:** Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:58 am **Posts:** 42

Heat trade Marion to Toronto for O'Neil, so that takes them out of the Amare sweepstakes. Ric Bucher of ESPN says the Bulls and Cavs are the most likely destination for him if a trade does happen.

Krazy Ivan · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:55 pm

ChEeZ wrote:

Heat trade Marion to Toronto for O'Neil, so that takes them out of the Amare sweepstakes. Ric Bucher of ESPN says the Bulls and Cavs are the most likely destination for him if a trade does happen.

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=29616

SHARK · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:33 pm

Not to say they were even in the sweepstakes, but the Memphis Grizzlies have also pulled out of the Amare Stoudemire derby, says Griz President Michael Heisley...

BD · **Joined:** Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:05 pm **Posts:** 12449

SHARK wrote:

Not to say they were even in the sweepstakes, but the Memphis Grizzlies have also pulled out of the Amare Stoudemire derby, says Griz President Michael Heisley...

There was talk of a 3 way deal (prior to the Heat moving Marion today) about Beasley ending up in Memphis, Rudy G. in Phoenix with Marion.....

SHARK · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:46 pm

BD wrote:

SHARK wrote:

Not to say they were even in the sweepstakes, but the Memphis Grizzlies have also pulled out of the Amare Stoudemire derby, says Griz President Michael Heisley...

There was talk of a 3 way deal (prior to the Heat moving Marion today) about Beasley ending up in Memphis, Rudy G. in Phoenix with Marion.....

Very interesting, BD...The Heat had been dangling Shawn Marion before he got dealt today to Toronto for Jermaine O'Neal, and I heard a really wild rumor about the Heat dangling Michael Beasley, which I don't buy for a second...

Rocks and Blows · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:29 pm

The Bulls need to get Amare and Gay, I've said that for weeks.

Douchebag · **Joined:** Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:03 pm **Posts:** 43567

Rocks and Blows wrote:

The Bulls need to get Gay.

schmitty1121 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:10 pm **Posts:** 6774

ESPN tv is reporting its between the Cavs and Bulls for Amare.

Rocks and Blows · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:07 pm

schmitty1121 wrote:

ESPN tv is reporting its between the Cavs and Bulls for Amare.

Who are the Cavs offering?

FavreFan · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:21 pm

Nas is right that Amarfe could easily average 30 ppg in any conference no matter how tough. Hes as gifted a low post scorer as there is in this league in my opinion. Aldridge is a nice player, but Amare is much better when motivated. I am curious, however, as to why you think his rebounding would go up to above 10 rpg. My biggest issues with Amare is rebounding and defense. Havent Boston and mainly San Antonio regularly proved that those elements are much more fundamental in winning a championship? I wouldnt give Amare max money for those reasons alone. Except for the 2004 Pistons you dont win an NBA championship without one of the best players in the league who gives a max effort every night. Im not even wasting my time on 2010 yet because way too much can and will happen between now and that summer, but I wouldnt gamble my franchises future and possibly Rose's prime on Amare maturing and making it happen on both ends of the floor.

BD · **Joined:** Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:05 pm **Posts:** 12449

Rocks and Blows wrote:

schmitty1121 wrote:

ESPN tv is reporting its between the Cavs and Bulls for Amare.

Who are the Cavs offering?

Wally Szcerbiak's $13 million expiring contract....and that rookie J.J. Hickson, maybe Delonte West.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:41 pm

Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas is right that Amarfe could easily average 30 ppg in any conference no matter how tough. Hes as gifted a low post scorer as there is in this league in my opinion. Aldridge is a nice player, but Amare is much better when motivated. I am curious, however, as to why you think his rebounding would go up to above 10 rpg. My biggest issues with Amare is rebounding and defense. Havent Boston and mainly San Antonio regularly proved that those elements are much more fundamental in winning a championship? I wouldnt give Amare max money for those reasons alone. Except for the 2004 Pistons you dont win an NBA championship without one of the best players in the league who gives a max effort every night. Im not even wasting my time on 2010 yet because way too much can and will happen between now and that summer, but I wouldnt gamble my franchises future and possibly Rose's prime on Amare maturing and making it happen on both ends of the floor.

Who said anything about giving him a max deal? What would be the gamble? Giving up Tyrus? What other alternative is there now? Did Pax get a guarantee from LeBron or Bosh that they would sign in 2010? You would know right away if he was motivated. I think there would be more rebounding opportunities based on the supporting cast. He played on a Suns team where defense wasn't really that important. However I do remember him playing great defense against guys like Duncan. I also think he would be motivated the way he was at the end of last season and the beginning of this year when he was the primary low post option. Either way it would be a two year gamble at worse (if he doesn't opt out). By that time I believe he would have proven he was worth a new contract. A Rose and Amare tandem would look really good.

Im too lazy and the internet is too slow here for me to feel like going back in the thread, but I thought people were talking about giving him a max deal. If we could get away with an extension in the 4 year/$50 million range that'd be fantastic(do those number look familiar?) I dont recall the great defense on Duncan you speak of. I recall a few years back him being able to do whatever he wanted offensively against Duncan, imo the best post defender of the past decade with apologies to KG. I think he's extremely gifted offensively. But I dont think its all an effort thing on the defensive end. I mean thats part of it. I just dont think hes a good defender when he tries hard. In fact I think he is definitely below average. His timing is off and, his rotation is bad to non-existent, and his footwork isnt as good as it should be for someone that athletic. Serriously, notice the difference between him and someone like Duncan in those areas, Also I dont think his rebounds will go up despite the Bulls lack of other big rebounders because he doesnt seem interested nor really ever has in that facet of the game. Also he's coming from a Phoenix team that has never stressed defense, but does this Bulls team stress defense? They may pay lip service to it, but I havent really ever seen it the past couple years.

I too have no problem getting rid of Tyrus. We agree that everyone except Rose is an expendable commodity.

MattInTheCrown · **Posted:** Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:07 pm

I just worry about a big man who's labeled a gifted scorer, but struggles with rebounding and defense. The last Bulls big about which that could be said is Eddy Curry. I know Stoudemire isn't Curry, but at the same time, it seems to me they may share the same weakness: lack of heart.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:54 pm

Nas wrote:

I don't believe it's a heart thing. I see it more as a player that doesn't want to accept a role that has him sharing with Shaq. Curry never played with the same passion you see from Amare. When Amare was given the role as the Suns primary and secondary post option last season his game appeared to go to the next level. He averaged 29 points a game over the last 34 games of that season and 9.5 rebounds to go along with 2 blocks. He also shot 58.4% from the field and 85% from the free throw line. That continued into this season until Porter gave into Shaq. I think you can expect similar if not better numbers with Rose because unlike the Suns the Bulls really don't have many scoring options.

I agree mostly, but I hope the implication here isnt that 2 blocks per game = good defense. Remember Shawn Bradley? Amare has never shown to be anything but a bad defensive player. And I agree the Eddy Curry comparison isnt really valid on any level. Curry isnt anywhere near the player and Amare has shown alot more passion for the game than him.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:36 pm

You really think his help defense is above average? I would argue it's not only bad. it's near non-existent. His footwork is terrible and he never recognizes backdoor screens, which is part of the larger overall problem that his help defense is terrible. He's a terrible team defender. If he just happens to be in the lane and someone drives in(which they always do because J-Rich and Nash are as bad a defensive guard combo as you are likely to find in the league) he might be able to block it but his team defense is abysmal.

I wouldnt want him for 4 years/$65 million I dont think, although with the amount of incomptent GM's in the league it wouldnt be the worst contract in the NBA. The bottom line for me, not to sound like Bernstein, is winning championships, and Im not sure you can win a title with him as the 2nd best player on your team unless you have a ridiculously deep team like the 2004 or 1988-89 Pistons. I dont see us getting that team anytime soon. If he would have shown any type of consistent commitment to defense or rebounding so far in his career I might want him for that type of money.

lipidquadcab · **Posted:** Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:38 pm

when it comes to Amare's lack of defense, I recall a recent caller to Mully and Hanley...

"No, he can't play defense, but who on our team plays defense now?"

Rocks and Blows · **Posted:** Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:59 pm

Porter just got fired as coach, have to believe Kerr is next. Do it Pax, they're desperate, do it you little twat.

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 57234

Where did you see this?

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:23 am

Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

You really think his help defense is above average? I would argue it's not only bad. it's near non-existent. His footwork is terrible and he never recognizes backdoor screens, which is part of the larger overall problem that his help defense is terrible. He's a terrible team defender. If he just happens to be in the lane and someone drives in(which they always do because J-Rich and Nash are as bad a defensive guard combo as you are likely to find in the league) he might be able to block it but his team defense is abysmal.

I wouldnt want him for 4 years/$65 million I dont think, although with the amount of incomptent GM's in the league it wouldnt be the worst contract in the NBA. The bottom line for me, not to sound like Bernstein, is winning championships, and Im not sure you can win a title with him as the 2nd best player on your team unless you have a ridiculously deep team like the 2004 or 1988-89 Pistons. I dont see us getting that team anytime soon. If he would have shown any type of consistent commitment to defense or rebounding so far in his career I might want him for that type of money.

I respect your basketball IQ but I have to question how you don't have a problem with Deng getting $12M a year and if I'm not mistaken you didn't have a problem with Gordon making slightly more than that but you have a problem with Amare making $16-$17M a year. I don't believe there is an NBA fan out there that believe either of them are better or worth more than Amare. Guys like Rashard Lewis and Michael Redd would be making more money than him. That's hard to believe considering dominant bigs are hard to find in this league and are worth their weight in gold. Every team over the past 11 years that won a title had a dominate big. When I look at big men around the league Amare is a top 5 guy now and going forward won't be worse than a top 3 guy in 2 years. Scoring 25-29 points and grabbing 10 boards a game is more than good enough for $16-$17M. Considering the age of Rose the Bulls won't have any other big contracts anytime soon with the exception of Deng's. How is Amare not good enough? If you don't like Amare then you must HATE Bosh.

I like Amare more than Bosh.

Im not a big fan of Luol's contract and I dont remember ever saying it was great on the board. Im almost positive Ive never once said Gordon should get a similar contract. I absolutely hate the way Gordon plays. Hes a much worse guard version of Amare.

Lets not forget Zach Randolph can do 25-10 in the NBA. You love to use stats as a barometer but there is so much more to the NBA than stats. Stats is how guys like Eddy Curry, Rashard Lewis, and Zach Randolph get ridiculously overpaid. I dont want to handicap our future by giving a max contract out to the wrong player. For the millionth time, I would not be opposed to an Amare trade. My only disagreement with you is on the aforementioned things.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:44 am

Nas wrote:

I'm not saying give him a max deal. I've never once said that. If you look back at my initial posts I don't even talk about salary. $16-$17M a year isn't a lot of money. What do you think you would pay to bring guys like Bosh and Wade here next season? A deal like that is in line with deals guys like Brand got. IMO opinion the deals I mentioned would be fair and put him in position to get another contract before him game declines. Of course I would love for him to make $12.5M a year with the Bulls but I know that's not going to happen. Tyson Chandler and Ben Wallace was worth more than that.

Also I really hope you aren't comparing Amare to any of those guys. On a terrible team Amare might average 35 a game. I know you aren't though. We both know bums can put up numbers on bad teams. We saw what guys like Rose and Mercer were able to do here.

Amare is better than Bosh, we agree on that. Also better than Brand. Im not sure why you casually threw Wade in there likes hes equal to them though. Hes one of less than 10 guys in the league I would give a max contract to right now with no reservations. His injury history is a bit worrisome but hes clearly one of the 5 best players in the league when healthy. Amare and Bosh are nowhere near on his level. $17 million is a lot of money to tie up to one player who is dominant on one end and doesnt even play on the other end. On a terrible team I dont think Amare would be very good. I actually notice that as the Suns do well, Amare does very well and vice versa. I dont feel like he would be motivated on a terrible team. He seems to love the big stage, which is a good sign. He usually plays fantastic in the playoffs, except again, defensively. I just feel like there has never been any coaching/pressure on him to perform defensively. Either way, he is pretty bad defensively and Im not sure hes salvagable.

Which would bring me to my next point. We would have 1 1/2 seasons to determine if he is worth a big deal, but I dont think hes worth it unless he shows a commitment to rebounding, ball movement, and defense(you know, the three main fundamentals of championship teams). And I dont trust our management/coaches right now to be able to guide him to that phase of his career.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:06 am

Nas wrote:

Fair enough. If the Bulls are winning you still believe they shouldn't re-sign him because he doesn't dominate on both ends of the court or because the coaching staff is terrible right now? If you believe he is worth more than Brand then obviously you believe he is worth more than the (laughably) $12.5 million deal that you said you would offer. Do you really believe that you can get a top 3 big for $12.5M a year or less than $16M? If so you've been following Uncle Jerry around too long.

Nas, lets not act like every GM in the NBA is competent. Brand wasnt worth his money. Same with Rashard. Same with Curry and Randolph. I think the Bulls would resign him if they were winning, at any cost. Thats what worries me. Unless he develops a defensive game, IMO hes not worth top dog money. And we both knows the player developmen has been awful the past few years so right now theres no reason to expect him to develop under us.

Pretty much Im getting tired of this team. I want everyone gone except Rose, starting with Pax and Vinny. I never liked the Vinny hiring from the beginning(really, who did?). Pax is an ok drafter but hes a huge pussy and cost us a chance at getting KG or Kobe.(although that led to us getting Rose but that was blind luck). Reinsdorf needs to shake things up before next October.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:22 am

Nas wrote:

I agree with most of what you are saying here. I'm being realistic though. We both know you pay a premium for bigs in this league because there are very few that can actually play basketball. Based on the salaries other bums or lesser players are making it's not unreasonable to understand Amare will make more than them. Hell I wouldn't want to sign him for $10M a year but I know that's not going to happen. If he is producing and helping you win he is young enough where it's worth taking the gamble on him in a couple seasons. I'm not even looking that far ahead. I drooling at the mouth imagining how great the Bulls and Rose will be if he had a guy that can score and dominate like Amare. I put them at no worse than top 3 in the East in a couple years with both of them. Considering Rose is a big time player and has played in championship games every year since he was in 5th grade I think the Bulls would even be a dangerous team going into the playoffs this season.

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to Pax and Vinny. I was on the Pax isn't good bandwagon 4 years ago. I will never forgive him for not allowing me to see Kobe play in Chicago. I will feel a little better if he gets Amare though.

I can understand why you would be excited at the prospect, but I dont think they would be top 3 in the East depending on how quickly Boston gets old. My main concern with Amare as a centerpiece is the becoming the East's Phoenix Suns. Ive heard Rose hasnt exactly been a good defender, which again, is why I really want a coach who knows what the hell he is doing before pontificating on further issues. As for now, I would agree that we should bring in Amare for any player(s) not named Rose, we can debate the contract stuff later. In the end its a worthless argument though. Pax is too much of a pussy. He'll trade for Joel Pryzbilla or someone and try and sell it.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:32 am

Sounds like a good spot to call it a night. Its been fun talking buckets with someone again. I gotta get up and run 5 miles in 4 1/2 hours. Here's hoping I dont wake up to Pryzbilla being a Bull :wink:

W_Z · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:07 am

FavreFan wrote:

I gotta get up and run 5 miles in 4 1/2 hours.

JESUS you're a slow runner. :wink:

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:56 am

W_Z wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

I gotta get up and run 5 miles in 4 1/2 hours.

JESUS you're a slow runner. :wink:

Amare Stoudemire

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