You need to accept the fact that Deng is dung and move on.

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Brad Miller's contract is up in 2010 if the internet is to be believed. Therefore, I approve of this move.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This deals makes sense for one big reason - Nocioni's 7.5M a year until 2012 is a horrible deal. He's proving to be a MLE type player who gets lost on defense way too much and is too much of a tweener.

When healthy, Miller is a capable center who is more offensively skilled than Noah and can move the ball well on offense. He also comes off the books in 2010. As for Salmons, you save 2M a year compared to Noce.

I don't think this is a super deal by any stretch, but personally, I think the Bulls did ok for themselves.

Looking at it like that, I agree.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Apparently, it's pretty much a done deal. ESPN is reporting: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3916703
Gooden, Simmons and Noce were pulled off the team bus before going to Milwaukee tonight.

Also, Michael Ruffin is headed to Portland. No word on the deal, but I wouldn't expect much more than a 2nd round pick down the road.

David Lee for Hughes? Just heard that and Heinrich is being shopped, send him with Tyrus for Amare or Bosh!

Well, I'll take it back. I didn't realize Miller is off the books in 2010. But now I worry that they make the playoffs; Miller might make them just good enough to get their ass kicked in the 1st round and miss the lottery.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Being in the lottery is VERY overrated this year.

Unless the Bulls get lucky and get #1 or #2 again they won't get much in my opinion.

Even if the Bulls make the lottery they'll still likely be in the teens.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think the David Lee thing is smoke.

The rumor that Chad Ford tossed out there is Lee, Malik Rose and Jared Jeffries for Hughes and Thomas.

Contract Wise:
Lee is under his rookie deal and would have to be resigned (probably at big money for a double-double guy)
Rose gets 6M a year and is expiring
Jeffries is at 6M a year until 2011

I like Lee, but don't see the value in this deal since you will need to resign Lee to really make it a valuable trade. I'm guessing in today's economics you would have to pay him at least 7.5 a year for 4 years.

As I said in the other thread, I pretty much agree with all of this. Salmons is the best player in the deal and makes abnout the MLE. I dont think Miller is all that good anymore but whatever, him + Hughes is alot of money coming off that all important 2010 book.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Being in the lottery is always better than not being in it, unless you're a serious contender, or expect to be in the near future. If nothing else, it gives you more trade options.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Well, in this case, the Bulls have successfully freed up more cap space for 2010. Who knows what will happen with free agents then but I'd rather have a chance at one of them rather than whatever future failed first round pick they'd get with the 12th pick.

I agree with you that a high pick is still better than a low pick but 2010 cap space is the most important thing.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Offering Kirk to Minnesota for a bag of dirt. Are they putting all their chips in 2010?

I dont see why they wouldnt push their chips in for 2010 the team as its assembled now has no chance. Might as well load up and try to make a Godfather offer to Wade in 2010.

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Pretty much what I hope the do. A D. Wade/D. Rose backcourt will be a winner regardless of the other players, and a champion with the right frontcourt.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Will Benny the Bull greet Wade at O'Hare? Haven't we seen this before?

Hey I am not saying the plan is foolproof but I dont necesarily see a better one for this Bulls team to take. Hope to suck real bad and luck into another top 5 pick that Pax could possibly screw up? If you get enough money together and tell Wade you have a chance to play in your hometown with one of the 5 best point guards in the league you dont need Benny the Bull to show up at the airport.

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from Chad Ford

Chad Ford: A few weeks ago the Bulls finally got bold, attempting to work a complicated three-team deal that would land them Chris Bosh. The problem was, the Raptors and Suns weren't willing partners.

In comparison, the Bulls trade for Brad Miller and John Salmons seems pretty underwhelming. How is the addition of Miller and Salmons the change that the Bulls really need? The answer, I think, is that it isn't. Miller was once a force in the low post, but his best years are far behind him. Salmons is a good, versatile role player, but doesn't really address their weaknesses in the front court.

However, another shoe could be dropping in Chicago. League sources continue to insist that the Bulls might not be done. As Marc Stein reported this morning, the Bulls and Wolves have talked about a Kirk Hinrich trade that would send back some more cap relief (Jason Collins and either Rashad McCants or Brian Cardinal) to Chicago. If the Bulls pull the trigger on that deal, they'll have only $25 million in committed payroll coming into the summer of 2010. They could have even more space if Salmons opts out of his contract in the summer of 2010.

That would make them serious players in the 2010 free agent market for ... you guessed it ... Chris Bosh. A source close to Bosh told me this afternoon that Chicago would be his first choice as a free agent destination that summer.

While another year and half of mediocrity might be too long for some Bulls fans, a core of Derrick Rose, Luol Deng, and Chris Bosh might be worth the wait.

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"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

Brad Miller and Brian Cardinal? Might as well sign John Wooden and complete the trifecta of big old white former Purdue players!

I'm loving the idea of the Bulls positioning themselves to be a major player in the free agent lottery in 2010.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't mind the trade with the Kings. They most likely weren't going to get an impact guy with Gooden this year, so his contract would have just expired and they wouldn't have gotten anything for him. At least they parlayed it into an expiring contract for next year, so they may have an opportunity to make a splash in the offseason or at next year's deadline. This is what they should have done with PJ Brown's expiring deal a few years back.

As for the Hinrich deal, I'm not so sure about that. That's putting a lot of eggs in the 2010 basket that could come up empty.

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"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

What would you have the Bulls do instead? To call this a bad gamble, you have to show why the potential loss is worth the potential gain.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

I agree with Matt.

Sure, I would rather have Bosh or Amare right now, but if that is not possible, then what they are doing is the next best thing. This is better than them doing nothing (which is what I assumed they would do).

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Why do you care what they pay next year? It doesn't matter.

Brad Miller's contract is off the books for the important 2010 free agent spending spree. Nocioni would still have been on the books then.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Does the question, "Does it help Rose" matter, as long as Vinny is the coach?

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=TradeGrades-090218

It looks as if Salmons can opt out in 2010. Given that he would stand to make more and get a longer team deal in a great market for free agents he's likely to do so. Teams that miss on Wade and Lebron may takes Salmons as a much worse consolation prize. By all accounts, Nocioni's contract was a bad one especially since it is believed that his value is not that good.

Miller is certainly an upgrade over Aaron Gray who gets way too much playing time for my liking.

This trade wasn't a home run, but the Bulls got the best out of the deal.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think Salmons will opt out for 2010, considering the big money guys will be the ones getting the big money. I'm guessing the 2011 class will be much more pedestrian, giving Salmons a better shot to get paid. Or, he'll be worthless and gladly take whatever guaranteed money he can get.

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"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

Nas, I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Gooden has been hurt most of the year, so it's not like they are losing anything by trading him. Sure, they lose his expiring deal which would have freed up some money for the offseason, but have you seen this summer's free agent class? It's terrible (unless Kobe opts out). In the trade, they are exchanging an asset that is only valuable this year (Gooden's contract) for an asset that is only valuable next year (Miller's contract). Also, they are getting rid of a bad contract (Nocioni) for a fairly reasonable contract (Salmons). Also, by getting Salmons, they are protecting themselves from overpaying Gordon in the offseason.

Let's face it: the Bulls aren't winning a title this year, and they probably won't next year, either. However, let's say they make an early run next year and are one big piece away from contending. Now, they have a huge expiring contract to dangle (potentially two if they don't dump Hughes which is the right move) to go out and get a star for the stretch run. Or, they let those two big contracts expire and have a TON of cap room to sign a big fish.

I don't think it really matters whether or not the trade makes THIS team better. I think the only thing that matters at this does get them a little closer to a championship.

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"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

Why do you care if they pay the luxury tax?

Hinrich will be dumped to get back an expiring contract. The big casualty here could be Ben Gordon, but I think he's going away anyways.

It didn't put them in a worse one though and if Salmons opts out then it's a lot better.

Once again, why do you care about the Bulls paying more money next year? Are you an investor?

The Bulls are in very good shape for 2010 and this trade either continued that or improved it. We'll see what happens by the deadline but at worst this trade has no effect either way. Did you read that link? He's giving the Bulls a solid grade for this trade.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Brad Miller's expiring deal is actually MORE valuable than Drew Gooden's expiring deal this year. Teams will be looking for contracts like that next year like it's made of solid gold. No one cares about expiring contracts this year because the free agent class has no real value.

The Bulls have the option of trading Miller next year or letting his contract expire and having more money to spend on a free agent if they think they can get one.

Every GM in the league is building a strategy around the 2010 free agent class. The Bulls should be applauded for attempting to position themselves strongly in it.

I'm sure they'll write an article about it after the trade deadline, but I bet the Bulls become one of the most well positioned teams in the league for the 2010 free agent signings.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think they should get rid of Hinrich. His contract gets more reasonable as the years go on, and he's a very serviceable player. As for Gordon, he most likely wasn't coming back anyway.

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"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."