Phoenix were the ones who pulled Amare off the trading block. It didn't have anything to do with Pax's willingness or unwillingness to make a deal with them.

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A few things.

The Bulls being good doesn't really matter. The best thing to happen for the future would be to lose every game the rest of the season.

Salmons will be a good replacement for Gordon who is clearly gone after this year.

The Bulls freed up salary for the future. Nocioni's long term deal is gone.

Once again, it doesn't matter that the Bulls are paying $10 million more next year. Gordon was gone anyways. If they pay the luxury tax that's the owners problem.

The Bulls traded an expiring contract this year that's useless for an expiring contract next year. Brad Miller could be very valuable next year in a trade since his contract can take $12 million off the books of a team that gets him. I'd rather have $12 million expiring next year instead of $7 million expiring this year and Brad Miller is just as good as Drew Gooden and you get him for an extra .5 years to 1 year if he's not traded.

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The only way the Suns were going to trade Amare Stoudemire was that GM Steve Kerr couldn't pass up what was being offered. Besides, when Alvin Gentry was hired as the interim head coach, he immediately put in the offense that the John Ratzenberger-looking Mike D'Antoni had before leaving for New York last summer. 'Nuff said.

Trade analysis:

True either way:
Ben Gordon is gone after this season.
The Bulls are nothing more than an average to below average NBA team with no real shot of competing with the best in the East.
Nocioni, Gooden, Brad Miller, and Salmons aren't going to change the above statement.

2008 season if the Bulls hadn't made the trade:
Drew Gooden's expiring contract of $7.1 million gets off the books at the end of the season. No real value.
Andres Nocioni stays for $7.5 million next season.

2008 season with the Bulls making the trade:
Brad Miller and John Salmons are similar in salary to Drew Gooden and Nocioni for this season.

2008 verdict: Draw. This trade really doesn't change anything for 2008.

2009 season if the Bulls hadn't made the trade:
Drew Gooden is gone.
Andres Nocioni is still around.
The Bulls have less payroll.

2009 season with the Bulls trade.
Miller and Salmons still around. The Bulls have the very valuable "expiring contract" in a season where this is the most valuable commodity in the league. This is a great thing to have and at worst it's an expiring deal. This may make the whole trade worth it right here.
The Bulls have more payroll, but since I don't pay the bills I don't care. This will not cost them any players.
There is a small chance Salmons opts out if he plays very well. If so, this gives the Bulls even more cap space for the most important free agency period in NBA history. The entire league changes during the off-season and the Bulls are in as good of shape as anyone.

2010 and beyond:
2010 season if the Bulls hadn't made the trade:
Andres Nocioni is still on the team making more than he's probably worth for a bench player.

2010 season with the trade.
Salmons may be gone, but probably not. He has an expiring contract.
Brad Miller is definitely gone if he wasn't already traded away.

So really, by this trade, the Bulls pretty much drew even in 2008, added a valuable expiring contract for 2009 with the small possibility of having another contract off the books for the 2010 draft class, and got rid of Nocioni's long term deal.

Winner: Bulls

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Nas, I think you're focusing only on 2010 in terms of big name free agents. For teams who know that they won't be able to keep their stars (due to economics or bad mojo), Miller's expiring contract is very valuable. If Toronto comes to the conclusion that Bosh is gone after next season, why lose him for nothing?
Props to Boilermaker Rick...your post explains it best.

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That is false.

The Bulls could make 1 big trade and keep that expiring contract for another free agent. By my count, there are at least 10 impact free agents coming on the market.

They weren't going to get anything for Drew Gooden's expiring contract. Now they can trade Miller's for something. That's a positive. They would still have the other contract to use on a free agent.

That's where the value is. There is a lot of flexibility by having an extra expiring contract. At worst, it's the same situation they would have been in otherwise. At best, it turns into a big time trade.

You keep on saying it wasn't a plus, but at a minimum, besides the Bulls maybe paying the luxury tax which doesn't matter, it's not a negative. This can only help the Bulls. It can't hurt.

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Nas are you forgetting ALL of Noc's contract?
Nocioni $8,000,000 $7,500,000 $6,850,000 $6,650,000
Salmons $5,104,000 $5,456,000, $5,808,000

It improves the Bulls position by a Mil in 2010/2011 & by 6.7Mil the year after that.

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The free agents hit the market after next season, not this offseason, so how would Gooden's contract help them then?
How does Miller's contract hurt them?
How is Salmons' contract worse than Noc's?

I see the bulls treading water next season with pretty much what they have less Gordon, and positioning themselves to make a run at CB4, Amare or Wade in the next offseason.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

If Brad Miller is traded, they get a pretty good price in return since his expiring contract will be very valuable.
If Brad Miler is not traded, they can use that expiring contract to try and sign a free agent.
It gives them plenty of options.

Even if they trade Miller, they still have expiring contracts they got back from the Hughes trade which they can use for a free agent.

So, the Bulls either have a ton of free agent money, or some good return on trading away expiring contracts.

A year from now we will realize just how valuable having a $12 million dollar expiring contract is in 2009. It's impossible to predict the future but the Bulls are positioned very well.

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Why are you so hung up on that? Everyone acknowledges that this trade may not result in anything. However, there is nothing that could happen that hurt the position they are in. They acquired a contract that is going to be very valuable next season.

They added a very valuable contract for next season with no downside. Drew Gooden would not have been an expiring contract next season, and therefore would not have been trade bait. The Bulls did not have two expiring contracts next year. They had one. Now they have Brad Miller's contract and the equivalent expiring contracts to Larry Hughes.

The Bulls have an extra $12 million of expiring contracts for next year they wouldn't have had otherwise. It may not lead to a blockbuster trade but it's much more likely now because of it.

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This is pretty much how I see things. And Im glad to get rid of Noc.

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I'll admit they didn't take advantage of it. I think if they don't trade Miller that the market for expiring contracts dried up. It's a nice option to have.


It would depend on what would have happened with Gooden's expiring deal. I don't know what would have happened.

Assuming no new signings would have happened this summer, I will acknowledge that.

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I'd rather the Bulls trade next season than use it for FA money I think. I dont think we have the necessary supporting players to win right away with Dirk yet, so I wouldnt want him. I dont think we'll get LeBron or Wade. Amare would be nice to have if it wasnt a max contract and would be $15 mlllion/year or less. I dont want Bosh for the type of money he'll get. I dont want Josh Howard or Michael Redd for whatever they will get paid. Joe Johnson would be great to have but Im not sure how much he'll want and we need a big more than a guard. Ray Allen and Manu obviously wouldnt be great fits because of age and need. T-Mac has been overrated his entire career except for 38 seconds against the Spurs a few years ago and I wouldnt want him. Camby would be interesting for the right price. Same with Chandler, Okur, and Boozer.

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I dont know. Bosh is a good player. Im not sure he will ever anchor a championship team. I just dont know if hes tough enough in the paint to do it. Hes a good defender, and a good, versatile offensive player, but I never got the feeling he made his teammates better or had the necessarily intangibles to be a Robin to what we hope will be Rose's Batman. I could be wrong though, I havent see as much of him as I have alot of other star players, and havent seen one game by him this season.

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I tend to agree with you FF....I almost liken him to Gilbert Arenas in that respect..no question a very good, even elite player, but one where I can't really see a team featuring him winning a title. He might be having a Kevin Garnett-esque career, where he puts up great numbers and is able to lead his team to the playoffs and maybe out of the 1st round, but I think he's going to need a sidekick like KG in order to get to a title

I hope youre right, Nas, maybe I've just soured on Deng

Camby? The man is aged. Chandler? We've already established the fact that he's garbage. The thing I worry about with Boozer is this: even assuming he can stay healthy, we've already seen him with an elite PG and some decent role players, and that team wasn't good enough.

I still say they should do everything in their power to get James; after that, Wade. After that, Bosch.

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I don't get why everyone has given up completely on Lebron.

He goes out of his way to mimic nearly everything Jordan did from number to having a chalk gimmick. He's rumored to have a deal with Nike that pays him a ton of money to go to New York or Chicago. We've got a better and more stable organization than the Nets or Knicks. We've got a point guard that would play very well with Lebron's game.

We've got a fan base that absolutely loved Jordan and would view Lebron as the same.

I'm not saying we are the leaders but I don't know why he wouldn't give the Bulls very serious consideration.

The same goes for Wade.

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Camby is probably too old but the price might be pretty low. Who has established that Chandler is garbage? I understand hes having a down season but he defended Tim Duncan one on one for most of that 7 game series last spring and did a very decent job. Hes a very good defensive big guy. I never heard of any concensus that he's garbage. Im a pretty knowledgable NBA fan and wouldnt support that opinion. I think the same could be said of Nas.

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I agree but it could still work. It would certainly be unprecedented though. I doubt Wade would come here knowing that though. I agree you get LeBron no matter what, but I just dont see him coming here. Overall I dont think he will leave Cleveland, and I do think he will go to the Knicks if he does.

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At least Miller will beat the hell out of Noah and Thomas in practice.

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I'm with you. You aim high; maybe you don't get it done, but you aim as high as possible, and work down from there. ISTM, there's a good chance the others will wait for LeBron to sign, to sort of "set the market." You do everything in your power to make LeBron a Bull, and if that doesn't work, you move on to the Wades and Boschs of the world.

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The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
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None of the players the Bulls acquired before the NBA trade deadline are eligible to play tonight vs. the John Lithgow-looking George Karl & his red hot Denver Nuggets at United Center. Barring a setback in paperwork, Brad Miller, John Salmons, Tim Thomas and the other guys acquired should be in uniform Sunday vs. the Bill O'Reilly-looking Jim O'Brien and Indianapolis at Conseco Fieldhouse.

I dont think they need to wait for LeBron to set the market. Wade will definitely get a max deal, and Im pretty sure Amare and Bosh will too. Dirk will get close, although he might not get the years he wants, and Joe Johnson will probably get $15+ million/year unless the cap drops significantly.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul