Fair enough. I am just trying to quantify what exactly constitutes a "bust". I hadn't really tried to look at it statistically before.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You might want to reread the thread. That was more or less a side conversation. Tim Couch couldn't succeed because the Browns were bad but the Colts were just as bad and he went on to be one of the greats of all time. Coming to a terrible team and being on the worst team in the league the next year didn't negatively affect him.

I'm comparing Grossman to Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington and Tim Couch and wondering why those three players are considered busts(by most people in my opinion) and Grossman is not(by most people in this thread).

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

His numbers do not agree with you.


It would depend somewhat on how he played in the game. If he threw for 3 touchdowns and no interceptions it would move him up. If he stayed at his statistical averages then no.

I can't judge a first round NFL draft pick on one season. I have to look at his body of work. If you told me that we would draft a QB with our first round pick this year, and he would give me numbers equal to Kyle Boller I'd tell you that we would be better drafting a punter.

I don't call Rex Grossman a bust because of the terrible interception he threw in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl and I don't think he's no longer a bust because we got there. He was far from the reason we were there.

Busts are judged by careers not by a few games.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Take a look at J.P. Losman. He's almost the same guy. He was a mid-late first round pick replaced by a mid round pick, he's been injured often, and he's only had one full season played with somewhat good stats.

Grossman
6 years / started 30 games
521 comps / 962 attempts 54.2%
33 TDs / 35 INTs
6,164 yards
70.2 rating

Losman
5 years / started 31 games
558 comps / 941 attempts 59.3%
33 TDs / 34 INTs
6,211 yards
75.6 rating

Do Bills fans think he's a bust?

Good call Mike.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't see how Grossman's leg injuries affected him throwing the ball to opposing DBs, fumbling snaps, "not seeing" a behemoth of Dolphin DTackle, or worrying about New Year's instead of a football game.

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Frank, I agree with you on the new year game, but if you don't think a leg injury can cause interceptions you need to rethink your position. A few fumbles aren't what makes a "bust" either. That will happen.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Leg, Arm, Finger injuries, whatever. The bar was not set all that high for Grossman, and he couldn't even manage that. If Rex were even consistently mediocre, he would likely still be the start for the Bears.

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I think I'm starting to understand the case for Grossman not being a bust. It seems to center around the fact that he got injured.

I don't think a discussion of a bust cares about the cause. Every bust in NFL history has a reason or two why he failed. It can be injuries, drugs, mental problems, or being bad at football. Ki-Jana Carter was still a bust even though he had a considerably worse injury than Grossman. Todd Marinovich is still a bust even though his problem was drugs.

Rex Grossman has the statistics of a bust. By his production alone, you would have to consider him a bust. I don't feel the reasons behind his poor production matter in this. I think that is why I was struggling to understand why so many here didn't think he was a bust.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

BR, reading my posts, my main defense of Grossman being a disappointment over a bust is that he did in fact lead the Bears to a Super Bowl. By mentioning injury, I'm disagreeing with Frank's statement that injuries don't result in picks. I believe a leg injury would result in more picks. Like any decent Frank post, it had nothing to do with the point of the thread. Neither did my response.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I wasn't gonna do it, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

QB drafted in the middle of the first round by a team with garbage RBs and average-at-best WRs.... started 15 games, threw 16 TDs / 19 INTs, 3,111 yards, 281 / 515 , 54.6%, 67.7 rating. Essentially half of Grossman's stats in half the time, so statistically equal...and he's considered a HUGE bust. Why him and not Rex? because he was just as bad/good for less time? because the rest of the team sucked too? because he was an asshole?
Don't get me wrong, the guy was a bust, HUGE bust. So is Rex, thats what you call it when 1st round picks fail. Rashaan Salaam ran for over 1,000 yards and 10TDs his rookie year, but he was a bust because everything else in his career was garbage.

Nas is right on the money. There's plenty of reasons why Rex wasnt' a bust.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I said the guy was a bust. He sucked. Don't try to say I said he wasn't given a fair shake in this town. I said he was a bust. Should I say it again?

... and no, he started 15 games. He was present for 25 games...big difference.

And no, those receivers weren't that good that year, I know exactly who he played with. You think they were great, fine, whatever...his running backs and offensive line were horrible, you probably think Curtis Enis and Jame Allen were borderline great, fine. He played in Gary Crowton's completely idiotic offense, you may think it was just ahead of it's time, fine. He was an asshole, couldn't play football and yet his stats still stack up to Rex's.

Rex was only sacked 21 times in '06 (his only half decent year), had a solid running game, very good offensive line, great defense and a top special teams that scored...and his #s were still average at best. And every other year he played he was awful. Maybe you were in the locker room to hear all of Rex's inspiring words before the games and at halftime, but I wasn't so I can only speak to what I see on the field... and I'm glad I won't be seeing Rex on it when I watch the Bears next year.

Who cares about Jim Miller and Shane Matthews? Jim Miller was a 6th round draft pick and Shane Matthews was an undrafted free agent.

Marcus Robinson was the only really good WR the Bears have had and he was only one for a year. You can put Curtis Conway, Bernard Berrian, Marty Booker, Mushin, and any other Bears WR in the past 15 or so years together and the best seasons they had are roughly the same.

The one thing that no one can argue is that Rex Grossman's statistics put him in the same company as almost any QB who is considered a bust except for the 5 previously referenced horrendous busts in the past 15 years.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If he didn't have that performance, he would be among the all-time busts statistically. Even with that great stretch of play, he still ranks among other busts.


Rex was really good for a short period of time. He was nearly all-pro good. However, players aren't judged by one year. They are judged by careers. McNown was a bust and his averages are very similar to Rex's.


If Kyle Orton puts up the same numbers next year he put up last year he will have a significant statistical lead over what Rex did. If he regresses from last year he deserves to be run out of town. I don't think it would be unfair in the least.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rex was a disappointing first round bust, who had 6 great games.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Since when do we exclude unfavorable statistics to create a worse statistical player?

Rex's career isn't over yet.
for the Bears we have a Super Bowl appearance in his most productive year. He spent a good deal of time busted up.

Now I've been thinking about Prior and Grossman. Both had one good/great year with playoff success (to a degree). Both were injured a good deal of time with Chicago, both here about 5 years... Kind of the same guy and I do consider Prior a bust, so you might be onto something.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I'm not. However, 2006 is being used as a reason why Rex wasn't a bust. They are using a small set of games to say that his career wasn't a bust. It's just as incorrect to exclude unfavorable statistics as it is to only base his career off those small set of games. I would prefer if we judged his whole career but if people can talk about 2006 like it saved Rex from being a bust then I can use the opposite angle and say that 2006 was the only reason he isn't an all-time bust. If you would like, we can discuss the statistics of his whole career but it takes out one of your primary talking points by concentrating on how he wasn't good for 6 years rather than being good for most of a year.


Rex is a bust in Chicago. Unless he signs with them again, that will not change.


Not a bad comparison actually.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not only that, Nas, but Prior was also a pudwhack. By all accounts Rex is a good guy.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

The last two seasons he has missed 1000 yards by less than 50 yards. Given who has been throwing the ball I have to believe that he lost at least 100 yards by how bad his QB was.

Berrian is as good as anyone on that list except Muhammad out of Chicago.


Hester sucks. However, when talking about Rex, he was never the #1 or #2 option for him. Moose and Berrian were.


I dislike Mushin as much as anyone, but he was good before he got to Chicago and was good after he left Chicago. He is by far the best WR of that group based off of career statistics and no other WR comes close.

The Bears WR's were terrible last year but I'll put Mushin and Berrian up against any two others in the list and I think they are as good or better.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There's some kind of asshole factor when we judge players.

That may be part of the reason I don't really consider him a bust. He definitely walks a fine line and it's pretty hard to acheive a 0 qb rating. Still, they had a bigger bust with their first pick in the first round that year. Haynes was a total bust.

Bigger Bear Busts: Rashan Salaam, Cade McNown, Curtis Enis, Cedric Benson, probably David Terrell, Dan Bazuin was pretty bad

How pathetic are the Bears when a debate like this seriously rages among fans?

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Boy, you said a mouthful there, Franklin. We debate Grossman and his degree of suckage, while 49er fans debate Montana v. Young. Just sad

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Harbaugh vs. Grossman, discuss.

Both late 1st round picks, showed potential, villified near the end of their Bear careers. Who was the bigger bust/dissapointment? Only talking about Harbaugh as a Bear, not his later colt years.

If Rex has that sort of "Harbugh" success on another team, this is a different discussion.

Rex as a Bear is a bust, and 8 great games and mediocre (at best) playoff/Super Bowl performances don't change that one bit.

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