Spaulding, I think he's talking solely about the offense. A great QB can take a bottom feeder offense to at the very least middle of the road instantly.

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You are relying too much on stats. Orton was suppose to be a game manager and not make mistakes. Cutler, with no defense or running game, was asked to take the team on his back when other teams knew they were going to pass. I don't see how anybody would take Orton over Cutler if you watched them play.

Sure Frank this move makes them mor competitive. Even if they average 20-30 points a game. But they've got to play defense better than they did last year.

Welcome back Nas.

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You would be.

I really like the situation Orton is going into in Denver and I think he'll surprise people. Brandon Marshall is in another stratosphere to Devin Hester.

I rooted for the Bears to do well first. I rooted for Orton to do well second. Those two went together for a while. I was ready to give up on Orton if he wasn't better next year than last year. I expected and hoped Orton would throw for 3500 yards, about 21 touchdowns, and about 10 interceptions. I see Cutler going 25 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. I have said all along that Cutler is a clear upgrade over Kyle Orton.

Just remember that when you think I'm biased because of the school he went to that I've been 100% right on Orton so far.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Who is taking Orton over Cutler? No offense, but it seems that you don't really read what I'm saying sometimes.

Let me make this clear.

Jay Cutler is better than Kyle Orton. I'm actually a Jay Cutler fan before this whole whiny baby attitude he showed this off-season.

Jay Cutler will throw a higher number of interceptions here than an average good qb will. It is in his nature. You can see it when he is playing.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

...But I'm the board's resident meatball

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You know whats funny is if Cutler had been traded to the Redskins everyone would be bitching that Angelo should have gone after him and that the Bears don't step up and go after the big name free agent or player VIA trade and that this was our chance to get a potential franchise QB and we did nothing. But now that they actually did step up big time and make the biggest off season splash in the entire NFL people are bitching about the prospects of unknown draft picks and how great Kyle Orton was and that Cutler will never be Brady or Manning (even though he's only started 2 full seasons and his numbers match up well) and blah blah blah.. The Chicago sports fan never ceases to amaze me.

Looks like Nas has discovered Rex 2.0

At least this time he picked a good player to build up as the greatest thing ever to happen to the Bears franchise.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The Bears improved the most important position...by a lot. Thats a very good thing.

And I was 100% right that he was.

Please give me an example of a way in which my bias manifested itself in an incorrect prediction.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Orton threw an interception approximately every 39 attempts last year, a game manager. Cutler, a gun slinger, threw an interception once out of 34 attempts (in over 1000 attempts) the last two years. Cutler also completed a significant higher percentage of passes the last 2 years, 63%, compared to 58.5% last year for Orton. And Cutler average yard per attempt the last two years 7.4 vs. 6.4 last year for Orton (5.8 for career).

And all this talk about draft picks the Bears have given up and how it will set the Bears back. What round was Brandon Marshall picked? The fourth round in '06. Two 100 catch seasons, '07 and '08. How about Eddie Royal, second round in '08 and over 90 receptions.

But how can the Bears improve the wide receivers without a first round pick this year or next?

Rick, do you think Cutler and Orton are comparable players? I don't think they are. He might throw more interceptions...I don't know but I can see your point there. I think there is also a higher risk/reward and he will have more attempts and I'd bet the offense takes more chances.

I'm a little nervous Nas and I are on the same side of a Bears argument. I don't think that's ever happened.

Well its good to see you posting. I had to be the one to post a race baiting story last week.

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You're grouping all of us into a population of 2 -3 people on a message board. I think the good majority of us are pretty damn happy about the move - I would most definitely be one of those bitching about the Bears failing to pull the trigger if, in fact they had failed to do so. I'm fairly confident in saying that I wouldn't be in the minority...

This move is the best thing the Chicago Bears have done in over 20 years. I haven't been able to read through all 4 pages in this thread, however I would probably find more reasons why Boilermaker Rick is a doubting Thomas for this team.

Fact is this: the Bears now have someone that will completely change the way they play (no more "Bears Football") which will only mean for bigger production from Forte and Olsen.

Even if Cutler is a complete bust, Bears fans can still be happy with the face that they at least made the deal.

No. Jay Cutler is better than Kyle Orton. I may have to put that as my signature so people understand it. What you say above is true. The Bears offense will take more chances with Cutler. He's much more of a gunslinger. He's Rex Grossman but good. Our QB play will be better. I just think that our team may not see a net benefit because we aren't simply a quarterback away from being a Super Bowl contender and having no picks in the most important draft round for two years is going to be harder to overcome.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Then how are you not completely ecstatic and optimistic about this trade?

Everybody please stop mentioning Rex Grossman. It's bringing me down.

I think Nas is right, and I say that as a boiler fan.

I'm optimistic about Jay Cutler. I'm just not optimistic that this team will see a net improvement. QB play will be better. However, two positions are going to suffer because of this trade on a team that is still trending downward. This team has a lot of holes and Orlando Pace and others from the free agent scrap heap aren't going to patch them up.

I guess we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong and Jay Cutler becomes a top 5 QB. I'll be glad to be wrong. I just don't see this team competing for a Super Bowl with the way it is currently constructed with or without Cutler. Without him we'd have a chance to draft 3 players in rounds that offer talented players. The Bears aren't one player away from winning the Super Bowl so I'm not going to get excited about the addition of one player. Going 8-8 next year won't be more gratifying with Jay Cutler.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah I've toned it down. Besides, the one I posted last week about the Lyons mayor was obvious.

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Please compare the numbers of Ben Roethlisburger(better than his stats show though), Kerry Collins, and Kyle Orton and get back to me.

If you want, even take a look at David Garrard, Jake Delhomme and Joe Flacco.

There are three clear tiers in starting NFL QB's.
Good to excellent:Where Cutler is.
Average: Where Orton and the above are.
Bad: Probably 5-10 starters fit in to here.

It doesn't matter as talking about Kyle Orton isn't what this discussion is about but he's an average QB. Even Boers and Bernstein have admitted as such even though they don't really like him.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah I cant believe this is being debated...a 25 yr old qb who has already gone to the pro bowl AND he's signed 3 more years. The best part is: The Bears dont have to evaluate a college qb or devolop him (much)...Denver did the picking and devolping (most of it) for us.

25 year old Pro Bowl Quarterback with a chip on his gunslingin shoulder...I like it...I like it a lot

Tom Brady is the product of an offensive system that is simply unparalled in the league. Yes, he has the talent and athletic prowess to be one of the greatest ever at his position, however I would doubt he would have the same success anywhere else than New England.

With that being said, I do believe that Jay Cutler (with the right offensive playbook and system) can be just as great.

I'm not saying its a majority but rather the fact that they are. On this board and others hell even the Blackhawks board I post on not to mention some columnist and the goofs that call the talk radio shows. There are more than 2 or 3 but what amazes me are that there are any at all. Considering this franchises history and its quarterback history there shouldn't be one person bitching about this trade. This is the best thing to happen to the Bears since the 1985 season.

He's Rex Grossman but good??? Thats and oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Indeed. Look no further than Matt Cassel. Matt who????????

"Classic Bears fans overreaction"

So trading for Jay Cutler is better than making the Super Bowl or even the playoffs? It is better than the acquisition and rise to super stardom of Brian Urlacher?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yes. I'll take a franchise QB for the next 10 seasons over a fluke Super Bowl appearance and the drafting of Urlacher. He'll have much greater impact on the success of this team than Urlacher ever had.

Really. How so? The Bears of 2006 were the best of a bunch of JV teams any of which would have gotten walked in the Super Bowl and they did. Hell they played the Saints in the NFC championship game and neither team has been back to the playoffs since. And if you don't think Jay Cutler will have a greater impact on the success of the Bears than Urlacher well than I can't help you with that. In his prime he was great player with weaknesses that teams learned to exploit IE block his ass. Cutler on the other hand can make other players around him better and thus the entire offense becomes better. Look at all the Super Bowl winners throughout the years and you'll see one thing the vast majority had star quarterbacks. The few that didn't had some of the best defenses that were ever assembled (Bears, Ravens, Tampa).

blackwater, the saints are a perfect example of a team that proves you wrong. they have a fantastic QB but because their defense stinks to high heaven, they haven't done a goddamn thing.

QB is the most important *single* position, but a strong defense can get you a lot more collectively.

the bears forced 5 turnovers against the saints in that NFC championship game. QB had nothing to do with that.