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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:32 pm 
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I know it does not mean much in the big picture, but I LOVE to see the Bulls beat the Pistons and to secure their fate of being 1st round fodder for LeBron.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:39 pm 
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illini81887 wrote:
Officiating has been awful in this game

That's an under-statement. They called a foul on Tyrus for being landed upon. After numerous blown calls, including that one, I turned to my friend and said "this is like a highlight reel of bad officiating."

Bill Simmons is right: the NBA has the worst officiating in sports, hands down.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:40 pm 
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This late season surge just means that Vinnie Del Bevington is going to be the coach next year. I would like to see some defense from this squad and Vinnie doesn't seem to be the man for that job.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:41 pm 
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Niel2760 wrote:
Is it possible for the Bulls to take control of a game and hammer a team all the way through? It seems that on this win streak they have snuck every game out at the buzzer.

That's the NBA, for the most part. You have a few upper end teams who routinely blow other teams out, but the rest tend to go on runs back and forth, with the better teams pulling out the win at the end. Prior to the trade the Bulls were generally on the losing end, and now they're on the winning end. To me, that means they're on the upper-echelon of mediocrity.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:42 pm 
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MattInTheCrown wrote:
Bill Simmons is right: the NBA has the worst officiating in sports, hands down.

I don't know, Matt. Baseball umpires are no great shakes, either. But I watch a lot more baseball than basketball, so my opinion may be skewed.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Nas wrote:
spmack wrote:
I'm telling you all, prepare for D.Rose to average at least 20 and 10 next year....he is the best finisher at the rim I've seen in quite a long time...


I'm not sure where the 10 assists will come from unless they make a few trades. I can't recall a team missing so many wide open shots since Kobe was forced to go 1 on 5.


You're right...but I'm thinking that him and Tyrus will work on some lobs over the summer for at least 2 or 3 a game.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:45 pm 
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hawkeye wrote:
6 right now with 1 left for them. Half game up for the 6th spot. Edit: Man, Rose is a lot of fun to watch. He's so damn poised/professional but aggressive and athletic at the same time it's going to be fun watching him grow the next few years. This is a hell of a start though.

Yeah, his shot will improve, for one. Right now he has no consistency in his jump shot; hot one night, cold the next. That will get better with reps. Once he can become automatic from mid-range, I don't see how teams will defend him. I'm so happy the Bulls finally have someone that has genuine superstar-level talent. Hopefully he reaches his potential.

He's still got to do something about that defense, though. I carefully watch him on defense every game, and routinely see the other team score because someone else had to pick up his man after he lost him. He's really Gordonesque in that regard.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:46 pm 
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spmack wrote:
Nas wrote:
spmack wrote:
I'm telling you all, prepare for D.Rose to average at least 20 and 10 next year....he is the best finisher at the rim I've seen in quite a long time...


I'm not sure where the 10 assists will come from unless they make a few trades. I can't recall a team missing so many wide open shots since Kobe was forced to go 1 on 5.


You're right...but I'm thinking that him and Tyrus will work on some lobs over the summer for at least 2 or 3 a game.

Tyrus could be something if he would just learn what he is. A man has got to know his limitations. Tyrus is convinced he is a player that his is not and will never be.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:48 pm 
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spmack wrote:
Nas wrote:
spmack wrote:
I'm telling you all, prepare for D.Rose to average at least 20 and 10 next year....he is the best finisher at the rim I've seen in quite a long time...


I'm not sure where the 10 assists will come from unless they make a few trades. I can't recall a team missing so many wide open shots since Kobe was forced to go 1 on 5.


You're right...but I'm thinking that him and Tyrus will work on some lobs over the summer for at least 2 or 3 a game.

And Noah. The good thing about Thomas and Noah is that they're both quick for their size; they're an ideal pairing for a PG like Rose, if they can continue to improve their court awareness.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:18 am 
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That move Rose made to make it 88-87 (and drew the foul to tie it) was pretty amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:43 am 
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Nas wrote:
MattInTheCrown wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
6 right now with 1 left for them. Half game up for the 6th spot. Edit: Man, Rose is a lot of fun to watch. He's so damn poised/professional but aggressive and athletic at the same time it's going to be fun watching him grow the next few years. This is a hell of a start though.

Yeah, his shot will improve, for one. Right now he has no consistency in his jump shot; hot one night, cold the next. That will get better with reps. Once he can become automatic from mid-range, I don't see how teams will defend him. I'm so happy the Bulls finally have someone that has genuine superstar-level talent. Hopefully he reaches his potential.

He's still got to do something about that defense, though. I carefully watch him on defense every game, and routinely see the other team score because someone else had to pick up his man after he lost him. He's really Gordonesque in that regard.

He makes Gordon look like an All NBA defender.

No, you can't get worse than 0.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
MattInTheCrown wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
6 right now with 1 left for them. Half game up for the 6th spot. Edit: Man, Rose is a lot of fun to watch. He's so damn poised/professional but aggressive and athletic at the same time it's going to be fun watching him grow the next few years. This is a hell of a start though.

Yeah, his shot will improve, for one. Right now he has no consistency in his jump shot; hot one night, cold the next. That will get better with reps. Once he can become automatic from mid-range, I don't see how teams will defend him. I'm so happy the Bulls finally have someone that has genuine superstar-level talent. Hopefully he reaches his potential.

He's still got to do something about that defense, though. I carefully watch him on defense every game, and routinely see the other team score because someone else had to pick up his man after he lost him. He's really Gordonesque in that regard.


He makes Gordon look like an All NBA defender.


The funny thing about Rose is that defense was his forte coming out of college, but now it is a glaring weakness. In my opinion, his defensive performance has seriously declined since the first 20 games of the season. Rose's dropoff in this regard is obviously a biproduct of Del Negro's disregard for the defensive aspect of the game and is Reason #63,497 why he should be fired at season's end.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:05 am 
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Rose will be a good defender when he actually has a reason to be.

There is no reason to play all out aggressive defense when the other four players on the floor aren't going to do the same. Teams would very easily take advantage of the other weaknesses.

I agree with Tall Midget. No matter how the playoff run ends, Del Negro should be fired and a competent coach should be brought in. I think the end of this season has shown that the Bulls are not a terrible team. They could be a solid team with a competent coach.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:44 am 
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Rose's problem on defense is almost solely a result of his inexplicable refusal to fight through screens. Other than the screens, he's ok; problem is, every team knows that, and they invariably screen him.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:08 pm 
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MattInTheCrown wrote:
Rose's problem on defense is almost solely a result of his inexplicable refusal to fight through screens. Other than the screens, he's ok; problem is, every team knows that, and they invariably screen him.



Maybe he tops out at OK in other areas. Sometimes he just doesn't bother to guard his guy when he's clearly going to drive on him. If Skiles were still coaching, Rose would be seeing a lot of bench time. Not sure if that would be a good or bad thing from a long-term perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:23 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
If Skiles were still coaching, Rose would be seeing a lot of bench time.
Didn't Vinnie get taken to the woodshed for doing just that. :?

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:56 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
If Skiles were still coaching, Rose would be seeing a lot of bench time.
Didn't Vinnie get taken to the woodshed for doing just that. :?


Vinnie wasn't playing him much during the 4th quarter; Skiles would bench Rose thirty seconds into a game...like he used to do with Tyrus and Gordon. Again, I'm not sure this approach would be the correct one, though.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:58 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
MattInTheCrown wrote:
Rose's problem on defense is almost solely a result of his inexplicable refusal to fight through screens. Other than the screens, he's ok; problem is, every team knows that, and they invariably screen him.

Maybe he tops out at OK in other areas. Sometimes he just doesn't bother to guard his guy when he's clearly going to drive on him. If Skiles were still coaching, Rose would be seeing a lot of bench time. Not sure if that would be a good or bad thing from a long-term perspective.

I obviously don't know for sure, but it seems to me he's trying to conserve energy. He needs to get on Gordon's workout regimen.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:01 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:26 pm 
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Don't get me started on Scott Skiles! :x The love child of The SCORE's Brian Hanley & Michael Chiklis of "The Shield" should've been fired for NOT getting the Bulls PREPARED TO PLAY for the first 2 games in Detroit in the Eastern Conference Semifinals after they swept the Miami Heat 4 and out in Round 1. That was 2 years ago, but there were times that Skiles' Bulls NEVER adjusted to how the game was being called and I had a real problem with Scott's refusal to make such changes...Still, Skiles' current team, the Milwaukee Bucks, never recovered from key injuries to Michael Redd & Andrew Bogut. As a result, the Bucks will be watching the NBA Playoffs instead of playing in them as many NBA "experts" predicted this season.


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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:47 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
The funny thing about Rose is that defense was his forte coming out of college, but now it is a glaring weakness. In my opinion, his defensive performance has seriously declined since the first 20 games of the season. Rose's dropoff in this regard is obviously a biproduct of Del Negro's disregard for the defensive aspect of the game and is Reason #63,497 why he should be fired at season's end.


Thanks for bringing this up TM. I get sick when I hear all this talk he should be brought back next season because the Bulls made the playoffs. IMO they made the playoffs in spite of him. It's kind of like giving Doc Rivers credit for the Celtics winning last year. The Bulls can make a trade or 2 in the offseason that could put them in the top 8 in the NBA. If that happens having a guy like Del Negro makes no sense. Even if Paxson remains a pussy when it comes to pulling off a deal for a star player they should still get rid of him. Rose needs someone to help him reach his full potential. Sad thing is I think one of the guys that could get it done is coaching the Bucks.


We're dealing with Paxson here. There won't be a coaching change and more then likely there won't be any moves made in the off season besides what to do with Gordon, Hinrich and Deng. Besides, Bickerstaff and Harris are as much of the coaches of this team as Vinny is, if not more so. Rose will be good regardless who the coach is and now it's time for guys like Noah and Thomas to step up for next season. A full year with the current team, with a few changes(like trying to get Deng the fuck out of here), should be good for 4th in the East next year.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:07 am 
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Nas wrote:
I agree Rose will be good regardless of who is coaching him. I'm talking about a coach who can get the most out of him though. I don't believe the Bulls have a guy like that on their staff. I really believe they are content with letting him be who he is. I would really be disappointed if Tyrus Thomas was still playing for the Bulls next season. I was beating the drum to trade Gordon for the past 4 seasons because I was afraid that teams would find out he wouldn't be more than a streaky scorer. They've found that out and it's likely he will walk away for nothing. I don't see Tyrus getting better and I'm afraid Paxson will fall in love with him and it will be too late.


Well according to Terry's peeps, the Bulls don't have any desire to trade Thomas unless Bosh became available and I have a hard time believing that if Toronto traded Bosh it would be to a team in the East. There aren't many options out there unless you just want to get rid of him for the hell of it. Boozer is injury prone and not worth a full boat. Millsap is okay, but won't be worth the money he'll be looking for, plus Thomas is just as good if not better. You could try to get the Amare talks started again, but to be honest, I don't see him going anywhere either. All that stuff was just mental masturbation. By the time Rose reaches his prime, Odom would be near worthless, so forget about him. Charlie V. will probably run you 5/$50M, and I think he's nothing more then a poor man's Rasheed Wallace without the defensive skills and desire, so fuck him. Not many options left here, but to make sure Tyrus works hard in the off season and develops further.

15ppg, 8rpg, 3apg, 2.5bpg, 1.5spg is what I expect from him at minimum next season and he should be able to do that. I'll take that.

As for Gordon, I'm beginning to think they'll resign him to a pretty good deal, something around $8M per year for three years or so. The real key to this off season, IMO, is finding someone, anyone to take Deng, and don't tell me it can't happen because worse players with far worse contracts have been moved before.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:24 am 
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Nas wrote:
If you're right about Thomas I would be thrilled with those numbers. I can't jump on board with dumping Deng. I still think he is a valuable asset and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his injury. Prior to getting injured he started to regain the form he had a couple years ago. I would love to see him and Salmons in the same lineup. If Gordon comes back what happens to Hinrich? Do you believe they will keep both? If I'm not mistaken they would be over the luxury tax or close to it.


There's really no reason he can't put those numbers up next season. If he can't, then I give up on him, but I'm pretty sure he can accomplish that.

As for Deng, with Salmons here, there's no use for him anymore. Salmons can do everything Deng can, but better and then some. His D, 3pt. shooting, dribbling and creating shots are much better then what Deng can do. In this day and age, your SF needs to be able to hit a three point shot with some consistency and he hasn't shown the ability to do it. I like Deng, but he's a dime a dozen player and I have no idea why they gave him that contract. And if they can move him, then of course they'll have money to keep Gordon. If not, then if they want to keep Gordon, Hinrich will be moved. Bottom line, I don't want the reason to be why we let Gordon go was due to Deng's contract. I'd rather move Deng for absolutely nothing and resign Gordon then to have Deng's overpaid ass still on the team and lose Gordon for nothing since a sign and trade would be unlikely.

So if Deng goes, just keep the same three guard rotation with Rose, Hinrich and Gordon. That's fine for now.

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 Post subject: Re: @ detroit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
Good stuff. I'm not sold on Salmons defense. In some ways I consider he a taller Ben Gordon. He is a streaky guy that can put the ball in the basket. That's why I doubt Gordon will be back next season. Deng fills up more of the stat sheet. Look at his numbers from the time he came back from his injury on Jan. 12 until the day the trade was made. Don't forget Salmons is 6 years older than Deng and won't likely be around or be a factor when the Bulls have a shot at winning the East in the next 3 years.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/382 ... vZf.T4PKB4


Actually since Salmons can opt out, I don't truly believe he's here past next season. Someone who misses out on the big prizes will reward him with a big contract. This is also why I want to keep Gordon around in case this happens(in fact I bet it will). By moving Deng, we could at least resign Salmons or look at Joe Johnson. I can't live with the fact of losing both Gordon and then Salmons for nothing unlesss you overpay him.

To be honest, the scenario I see happening is what you want to. Deng staying and Gordon going. I just hope Deng at least adds a three point shot to his game. It would really be beneficial to the team.

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