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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:20 pm 
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I maintain my long-held opinion that this team's offense is overrated. Yes I know they led the league in runs scored last year. I mean despite that... :P

But seriously. Except for the Fukudome-inspired mini-stretch last April when the team showed unprecedented patience at the plate, this is, and has been, an undisciplined hitting team, one that does not out-think the opposing pitchers, does not know how to work counts, and cannot overcome scouting reports compiled against them.

Ultimately, what they are is a collection of mistake hitters. Which means, they can put up double digits against teams like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati, but against, you know, GOOD teams, they can be handled. Even subdued.

It was not at all surprising they couldn't hit against Arizona in the '07 playoffs, or against the Dodgers in the '08 playoffs. Those teams had good staffs and had time to scout and prepare for them. The Cubs had stretches during both those seasons where they collectively stopped hitting. And it never happened against weak pitching staffs. I still remember posting here last year how the AL pitching staffs exposed them during the stretch of interleague games last year.

This offense will continue to run hot and cold. They will pile up big numbers when they hit stretches of games against bad pitching staffs (witness the renaissance last night vs. Pittsburgh). Then they will go cold again, particularly in the playoffs AGAIN this year, if they make it. Fortunately, the Cubs starting rotation is strong enough to keep the team afloat, and key hitters are easier to obtain in mid-season trades than solid starting pitching.

But to achieve the kind of success the fans demand, changes will need to be made. No matter how hot the team might get between now and October. We keep hearing the Cubs hitters are veterans that have track records. Well, seems to me, here are the track records of these players. Tell me where I'm wrong:

Fukudome has a track record... of being overmatched by MLB pitching
Ramirez has a track record... of getting hurt
Johnson has a track record... of being a 4th outfielder released by Toronto two years ago
Fontenot has a track record... of being a decent backup for one-and-a-half seasons
Bradley has a track record... of being hurt and crazy
Soriano has a track record... of being hot and cold and not a particularly clutch hitter
Soto has a track record... of being a minor league player but for one year when he lost weight
Lee has a track record... of not having more than one spectacular season, and of being on
the downside since his wrist injury

There's your track records. Looks to me like everything is going as expected!


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:31 pm 
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I know, but my fear is, if they make the playoffs, you'll see this offense shutdown yet again. I don't see anything that says '09 will be different than '07 or '08.


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:37 pm 
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i agree, 24_guy. this offense really didn't do anything for me coming into the season, and they're not surprising me with their daily failures.


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:02 pm 
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before the questions start, I am not 24_Guy...

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:04 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
before the questions start, I am not 24_Guy...


Of course not, there was nothing in there about Kenny Lofton or complaining about Ted Lily. 8)

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:06 pm 
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for the record, I still think Lilly was a brain-dead aquisition, just like Peavy would be. When you have a fly ball bandbox, you invest in groundball pitchers. See: Derek Lowe...

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:17 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
for the record, I still think Lilly was a brain-dead aquisition, just like Peavy would be. When you have a fly ball bandbox, you invest in groundball pitchers. See: Derek Lowe...



I think Liliy had been on of the more solid starters since his pickup: 3.89 ERA and a combined 37-21 through his last start.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:25 am 
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I think the biggest problem was that this team was too righthanded in the lineup. In the last two playoffs who was the best lefthanded Cubs hitter? Was it Edmonds or Cliff Floyd or Jaque Jones :cry: No Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, David Ortiz or Carl Crawford in this group.

Other teams know this, how many Dodgers' lefthanders did the Cubs face last year in the playoffs-zero.

I think Hendry had the right idea, add lefthanded hitters to the lineup, but it appears so far that his solution is not working. Fontenot and Bradley have been disappointments. Of course these flops have been magnified because Ramirez is hurt, and Lee and Soto have been garbage. If Ramirez, Lee and Soto had performed this year close to last year's performance, the Cubs maybe have 3-4 more wins right at or near first place in the division.

I am still trying to gauge this team. You figure Lee and Bradley are due for a hot streak. I think Soto is a better hitter than he has shown and Soriano is due to get hot again. This team is at .500 even with all the problems they have.

But the eternal Cub pessimist in me thinks that this will be on of those years when things just don't go right. Fukodome is sure to slow down and I think Soto's more hurt then whats been let on. Lee appears to be on the downside and Ramirez probably will be out longer than expected. I see and 80-82 record this year.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:26 am 
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yeah, i cant see where cubs fans can have too much of a complaint with ted lilly. the glove-throwing incident in arizona aside, he has been pretty solid, healthy and reliable, maybe more than any other cubs pitcher since he came aboard.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:27 am 
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entr0py wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
for the record, I still think Lilly was a brain-dead aquisition, just like Peavy would be. When you have a fly ball bandbox, you invest in groundball pitchers. See: Derek Lowe...



I think Liliy had been on of the more solid starters since his pickup: 3.89 ERA and a combined 37-21 through his last start.


This has been one of Hendry's best moves.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:58 am 
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entr0py wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
for the record, I still think Lilly was a brain-dead aquisition, just like Peavy would be. When you have a fly ball bandbox, you invest in groundball pitchers. See: Derek Lowe...



I think Liliy had been on of the more solid starters since his pickup: 3.89 ERA and a combined 37-21 through his last start.


Stats mean nothing to Cof.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:22 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
But there have been injuries this season (some major and some nagging) that are not helping the offense, I'm sure.


Putting the Cubs in the same boat as the rest of the Central.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:46 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
entr0py wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
for the record, I still think Lilly was a brain-dead aquisition, just like Peavy would be. When you have a fly ball bandbox, you invest in groundball pitchers. See: Derek Lowe...



I think Liliy had been on of the more solid starters since his pickup: 3.89 ERA and a combined 37-21 through his last start.


Stats mean nothing to Cof.

as long as Lilly doesn't start in the playoffs, I guess he's a good pitcher in my book. I'd trust Z, Dempster (despite the walks) Marshall and Harden in front of him. He's been a decent-to-good regular season pitcher, but I think he'd get beat everytime in the playoffs. I hope he proves me wrong.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:48 pm 
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So one playoff start in the last 2 years tells you this?

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:50 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
[
as long as Lilly doesn't start in the playoffs, I guess he's a good pitcher in my book. I'd trust Z, Dempster (despite the walks) Marshall and Harden in front of him. He's been a decent-to-good regular season pitcher, but I think he'd get beat everytime in the playoffs. I hope he proves me wrong.

COF im a big Lilly guy...so im not gonna get into a debate cuz its obvious we have different opinions...but Dempster Marshall and Harden...really?

That dempster start in game 1 last year was the biggest pussy showing since Paris Hilton...he was afraid to throw strikes.

As for Harden and Marshall...well i disagree


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:18 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:37 pm 
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i would trust lilly over pretty much everyone else in the cubs rotation. zambrano maybe. but the rest of them...yeah give me ted


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:50 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
[
as long as Lilly doesn't start in the playoffs, I guess he's a good pitcher in my book. I'd trust Z, Dempster (despite the walks) Marshall and Harden in front of him. He's been a decent-to-good regular season pitcher, but I think he'd get beat everytime in the playoffs. I hope he proves me wrong.

COF im a big Lilly guy...so im not gonna get into a debate cuz its obvious we have different opinions...but Dempster Marshall and Harden...really?

That dempster start in game 1 last year was the biggest pussy showing since Paris Hilton...he was afraid to throw strikes.

As for Harden and Marshall...well i disagree

he wasn't afraid to throw strikes...he simply doesn't throw strikes. The Dodger scouting report was to let him get to two strikes before swining because he rarely throws strikes. However, I think he's got the stuff to throw in the zone consistantly and now will have to due to the word around the league about his pitching approach in 2008...

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:59 am 
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Ia gree this team is loaded with mistake hitters, but thats what good hitters are.

If you look at the best pitchers in bigs they have BAA around .200-.220 and they have this for a reason. No teams bat .300 against them. thus a player who has a .290 avg better do some work against the bad teams as well.

The Cubs are no different from any other team in that respect.

Show me the team that bats .300 against Peavy, Hamels, Grienke, Webb, etc. THEY WIN (I know some guys are hurt, etc but you should get the point)

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:10 am 
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24_Guy wrote:
I don't see anything that says '09 will be different than '07 or '08.


If that means winning the NL central again, that would be great. Right now, that looks like anything but a certainty. There are a lot of hitters (Lee, Bradley, Soto and Fontenot) who should do better than they have in April and May. Plus, getting ramirez back, will help a good deal. But that doesn't mean that Milwaukee and St. Louis will not go on playing well...or even better. The bullpen is not very good. In fact, except for Marmol and Gregg (to some extent anyway), the bullpen is mostly bad. If Hendry does not do something to improve that area of the team, I think 09 will be different from 07 and 08, in that the Cubs will not get the chance to play poorly or in any way at all, in the post-season. Hendry had best make a couple moves for relief help.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:47 am 
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Steve, I only disagree with your assessment of Gregg. He's been terrible, but LUCKY. Last night's Loony DP saved him, but if Bradley doesn't make that catch he's in deep trouble. He's not good enough to be a closer IMHO

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:03 am 
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Gregg has bad days and good days. Yesterday was a VERY lucky bad day. Yeah, he's shaky and NOT a guy I would choose if I were making up a team. He would be better suited to a 6th-7th inning role. Marmol has the stuff to be a good closer, but then who pitches the last out or two in the 7th and all of the 8th inning? They are short 2 arms in the bullpen. a set-up man and a lefty.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:27 pm 
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as a closer he's a poor man's dempster. and that is not good.


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