He had the second most A in the league and the third most Y in the league. Profootballreference.com says his YPA was 7.2 (I am assuming the author is talking Yards Per Pass Attempt?) which was 10th in the league. Yards Per Completion was tied for 9th. Now he was 2nd overall in total passes intercepted (trailing HOF to be Favre) but at the same time he was 7th overall in total touchdown passes.

If you feel like it, go to this 2008 NFL Leaderboard and look for all the great Orton stats. Let me know when you find one.


Blaming/crediting a game to a quarterback is really a silly endeavor. There are 22 people on offense and defense, and a good number of special teamers that all contribute to the play of a game. Orton's overall record may have been helped out just a bit by the stellar D during his playing time here (as well as an explosive Hester.) In many ways this stat is similar to a pitcher's win/loss record. If your team only scores an average of 2.5 runs a game, you will not have many wins -- if they score an average of 5.5 runs a game, you'll probably win a few more.

I don't think the Bears win the Superbowl just because Cutler is here, but he is a damned good upgrade over Orton/Grossman. He can throw the deep ball with accuracy, and that alone with Hester will help out tremendously. I still have concerns about the OL depth as well as the D becoming older and a bit slower, but finally there are no doubts in my mind at QB.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

Grossman has thrown 35 interceptions in 962 attempts; Cutler 37 in 1,220 attempts. So, to be even with Cutler's INT percentage, Grossman would need to have just 2 passes picked off in his next 258 attempts. Nice try, KC. Does it matter that Cutler is much more mobile than Grossman or Orton?

In a follow-up to that column—http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/cutler-as-a-bronco-it-boiled-down-to-bad-decisions—Joyner cherry-picks reader responses, both against Cutler and for Orton:


Now that's a huge scientific sample size! Most of us, eh?

To play Dan Bernstein, who would Joyner rather have, Cutler or Orton? Cutler or Grossman? Between the three, who is the best QB? I hate to say there's one only right answer but... Jesus, come on. Joyner also calls Colin Cowherd one of his favorite radio personalities. Credibility obliterated.

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I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. -Susan B. Anthony

I wonder how long it will be before Spaulding comments.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I would be happy to debate "The Football Scientist" on these issues.

1. Arguing that yardage is merely a product of attempts is pretty stupid, isn't it? After all, the top 3 yardage producers consisting of Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, and Kurt Warner, were coincidentally the top 3 QB's in number of attempts. Seems logical, doesn't it? They also all went to the Pro Bowl. Actually, Phillip Rivers is the only QB to have thrown for over 4,000 yards last year that didn't finish in the top 6 in the league in attempts, adding Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning onto that list. Seems more logical to suggest that the only way you are going to throw for 4,000 yards in a single season is to throw the ball a lot. Also, coincidentally, everyone of those QB's went to the Pro Bowl, except for maybe Rodgers, who may have gone, but I don't remember that being the case. Is it also safe to say that if you throw a crapload of passes and you are a good QB, you will make it to the Pro Bowl? Or that perhaps they threw the ball 616 times because they had a pair of stud WR's and an outstanding QB? Especially considering they had a great system running the football in Denver under Shanahan? Weak argument from someone who considers himself a "Football Scientist", isn't it?

2. For Cutler, from a Yards/Attempt standpoint, Cutler's 7.34 yards per attempt beat out Peyton Manning's 7.21 yards per attempt. It was also very close to Aaron Rodgers (7.53) and Kurt Warner (7.66). Is this truly a measure of concern? Yards per attempt? And what does the "vertical" have to do with anything considering the Bears primary weapons are a pair of TE's and a pass receiving RB? Its not like we have Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Steve Breaston lining up at WR, is it?

3. And what the hell is a "near turnover"? 4.6% of what in the bad decision rate? Cutler had 23 interceptions or fumbles on 616 attempts dropping back. That's 3.7% rate of INT or putting the ball on the turf relative to attempts. Drew Brees was 3.6%, Warner was 4.2%, Rodgers was 4.3%, Rivers was 4.0%, and Manning was 2.3%. I would say the only person who either puts the ball on the turf or throws an INT a lot less than Cutler per pass attempt is Peyton Manning. He beats everyone else in that category and is essentially even with Brees. Another ridiculous "how far can I dig" attempt by this stroke.

4. Let's review that record of 17-20, as well. If you don't want to blame that on his team, then explain to me why he's 12-1 when his Defense gives up less than 21 points? Sounds like its his Defense to me. And I'm not sure you can blame him for the last three games of the year they blew to make the playoffs. Cutler averaged 282 yards passing and accounted for 4 TD's to 4 TO's during that stretch. His Defense gave up an average of 37 points a game in those three games. Is he supposed to play MLB, too? I wonder what Tom Brady's record is when his Defense gives up 37 points? Drew Brees was 0-5 last year when his Defense gave up 30+ points. He must be garbage too, right? Why would anyone be excited to have Drew Brees on their team? His yardage was just a product of a lot of attempts. His yards per attempt is solid, but his near turnover ratio is on par with Cutler's, which we've already established as crap. Plus, he has a horrible record when his team gives up 30 points and his record in New Orleans is barely above .500 at 25-23.

What the hell is a "Football Scientist" anyway? Apparently its not what the name implies.

mrbibs and/or irish boy.

Since Grossman to anyone with a brian is better than Orton it would be an improvement over last year.

Cutler is definitely much better than both of them.

Remember everyone Orton was a media butt kisser.

Grossman was better than Orton?

Cutler will be much better than Grossman.

For a QB who is considered one of the better in the league, Cutler has a low td/interception ratio. The best QB's have a td/interception ratio of about 2 to 1. Cutler is about 1.5 to 1. If you go and look at the league's qb statistics from last year, it is pretty accurate with some anomalies. If Cutler is ever to become elite, he will need to cut down on the interceptions.

That is where the similarities end. Cutler is a legit top ten qb. Grossman was never and would never be. He was overhyped by a 6 game miraculous stretch until defenses figured him out. He hit the lotto of dumb coordinators that didn't discover his tendencies out and exploit them.

Cutler's interceptions will be a problem. If he is smart enough to learn when to pick his spots he'll succeed unlike Grossman. If he isn't, then he'll likely throw about as many touchdowns as interceptions and the Bears offense won't be that good.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think you are giving Grossman too much credit.

It should be Cutler = Hanie.

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What?

Please...for the love of God...stop with the Cutler / Grossman debate.
WTF is wrong with you guys?

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

That half-a-fuck sure used a lot of words to make such a preposterously wrong statement. Anyone who thinks that there's any skill-based resemblance between the two disqualify themselves from any consideration of their thoughts being informed or intelligent.

The only actualy similarities I can think of between the two are (i) they both have faces; (ii) they both need to breathe a certain level of oxygen to survive, and (iii) they both can stand, rather than sit, to pee.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The Football Scientists post is one of the most retarded things I have ever read. I bet he loves Mark Schlerith too....

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There is so much stupidity in this article, he obviously has no idea what he is talking about. I'd say Chicago was really patient with Grossman, wanted to embrace him, but he was just not that good.

No matter how good or bad Cutler is I won't want Grossman back.