I am not saying I am just saying

Freddy, Jose, Javier all losing 3-4 MPH on the fastballs this year? Coincedental? Maybe had some help0 last year?

Bobby Jenks comes out of nowhere throwing 100 MPH? and while some say he could always throw 100....not always.

All I am saying is if you are going to have a segment alleging players are juicing based on diminished skills, the Sox seem to have some prime guys?

How about a 3rd baseman who wernt on the DL last year in August and if he came back and played like he had for his first 3.5 years, that would have been his last year on the Sox and not sure anyone else would take a chance on him? Comes off the DL and has been GREAT ever since. Including a dramatic power surge this year?

Once again, I am not saying, I am just saying. Isn't that all you need to do to calim you never said it?

Let me be very clear that if a Cub player was dramatically down from a prior year, I would us them as an example as well.

If you wanna look at another group. Go down to Texas.

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Hm, in Crede's case maybe it's because it all finally came together. Just a thought.

The only thing Freddie's juiced up on is Oreo Double Stuffs and Salsa Verde Doritos.

_________________
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

Elementary, my dear Crapowski. Thus the need for the Oreo's and Dorito's. A simple seach of my pantry, and a step on my scale, solved this mystery.

_________________
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

Vazquez and Contreras haven't lost any velocity, but Mark Prior has.

BF, I don't think that is the case. They all pitched well over 200 innings last year, Freddy is lazy, Vazquez is only successful in the NL, and Contreras is a horse who got ridden hard last year and this year. Same thing with Buehrle, IMHO.

As far as Crede goes, the speculation regarding the DL stint last year was not 'roids, but that he needed the break to rest; it got him fresh for the long run. Also, everyone affiliated with the Sox will tell you that last year Crede became a different person - more outgoing and open, more relaxed; this allowed him to stop worrying about what was going on around him and just play baseball.

_________________
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

I'm assuming BF is being sarcastic. If not, this is the least intelligent post I have ever seen him make. Keep that bag on your head until football season.

Been saying Crede as well.

I agree with BF as to the making of the statements. If you are going to allege certain players used due to increase or decreases from past performance, I would say Crede gets a look.

Being a Sox guy though, I am not so blind to chalk up doubled HR's to "becoming a new guy", did he find the Lord of batting coaches?

_________________
"Woof Woof"

Anything's possible of course, but BF makes Joe Crede out to be some scrub to further his argument and that just isn't the case. He had very good minor league numbers and was MVP in A & AA ball.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/ ... rede.shtml

LOL

I am just pulling a North on you all here.(Sort of) Especially with the pitchers. I don't know for a fact that velocity is down overall, just heard it from callers a few times.

Now Mr. Crede is a another story. Take his prior 3.75 years of Major League Baseball and this guy was on the verge of not coming back to the Chicago White Sox. He took a DL stint for 2 weeks (?) in August and ever since has been a Phenom at 3rd.

I am just asking the question why Joe Crede is exempt from the same allegations the Morning show is tossing out at players daily? He sure has fits the pattern.

And only because I am typing, I can't go back and look who wrote about him being changed? Are you kidding me? That's the best you got? He changed his life during a DL stint?

That's like tom Hanks in Bachelor Party when Tawny Katon's (sp?) father tells Hanks he need to change his ways and Hanks says "I feel if I really apply myself I can be a new man by Dinner"

Or his minor league accolades? Whew, if Minor Accomplishment is the tell tale...RICH HILL for CY YOUNG!

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Steroids break you down after a while. How many Cub pitchers can put together 2 consecutive starts

As a Sox fan I apologize BF

and as Sox fans we have all not gotten over our Cub Issues? (Why can't we also just discuss the Sox without bringing the Cubs in to the discussion, bugs me!)

I get what you are saying, but IMHO Crede is a clean kid, but I would agree, the circumstances leading to his phoenix would make him a controversial issue.

_________________
""I am now done at the Score."
Mike North, June 24, 2008

No offense BF, but I don't think you understand the game all that much if you're comparing Rich Hill to Joe Crede as prospects. Hill is only a year younger than Crede and Crede has over 2,000 major league AB's compared to Hill's 150 big league innings.

So your theory is that Crede started juicing last August and that's why he's been one of the top third basemen since? That's hard to believe because for one thinf testing has been in place since the beginning of 2005.

Crede was part of a White Sox team that purposely failed its steroid test in spring training in order to raise the level of failed tests league wide and thus cause mandatory testing.

Does that sound like a juicer?

One of the top prospects in the game finally put it together...who would have thought that could happen.

Marty

Testing? and you think you understand the game?

HGH testing can not be detected by a urine test, only a blood test, which MLB players don't take. I can not even believe you just relied upon Bud's drug testing policy and you see Bonds still playing?

And I understand this game as well or better than you, A prospect based on Minor League Accomplishments is a just that a prospect, regardless of age. I used Rich Hill as a player who has some amaazing stats regarding Strikeout numbers , as in 2005 in Minors 92 K's with 11 Walks, and multiple 10+ K games. All that said, he has sucked when he pitching in the majors, but feel free to find your own Minor League Stud/Major League Bust player.

There have been tons of guys who have excelled at all Minor league levels and never become more than a journeyman player, I am just amazed at the inability of a Sox fan to admit that this was the path Joe Crede was on before last years DL stint?

This is Joe Crede's last year of a deal. Kenny was so excited about Joe's 1 1/2 month run he gave him a 1 year deal instead of Arbitration. I don't know if there is an Option, but even with it, I think Joe is in a for a huge Payday, which IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASEBALL this also fits the profile of when a guy Might use something to get a little better for when his first free agent year is coming up. LIKE JOES

With that said , his defense has also been steady and has improved as well, of which I am going to say doesn't hurt from improved quickness.

I guess it's OK to say every other player that has gone up or down quickly is juiced, but don't touch the Sox?

Now to really Piss you off, I don't think Mark Prior ever used anything. Not because he is a cub, or I think he is a good guy, but because I think he is such a PUSSY that he would never inject or ingest anything into his body, yet alone have a minor surgery that might help him heal 2-3 times faster than just sitting , doing nothing, then needing 1 more year to throw simulated games with a wet towel, but I would easily be wrong and that would be fine with me.

I watch more baseball than you could even imagine, too bad I don't get to see any of it at Wrigley Bar. So now go get your shine box. Understand "The Game" my ass! Who are you? Roy Hobbs?

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Don't get on the muscle too much BF, as I am 100% certain Joe has one year of arbitration left and am fairly certain that he has 2.

I would be lying if I said I had no doubts about his future success in July of last year. However, I could think of many, many other reasons to account for post July 2005 success. He has not dramatically increased his power and his swing has always been long and slow. I honestly cannot tell you what changes were made in his game. The results are obvious but I don't see much of a change in mechanics.

BF, if you honestly believe all minor league prospects are created equal then I really do question your baseball knowledge. Crede was winning a SALLY league MVP at the age of 20 while Rich Hill was still trying to get Big 10 hitters out. That's a huge difference. Crede has always been considered a top prospect so his performance since September of last year just didn't come out of the blue and more than likely isn't the byproduct of a needle.

bigfan and

_________________
To juice or not to juice, that is the question.
"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't really tryin'."-a NASCAR member recently said about boosting fuel efficiency.

TDEPAUL....I don't fully understand where you are going with that.....

I can see Big Fan's point, but it could be that Crede is simply playing with more confidence. Either way, I don't know if a big payday is in store for Crede. He kind of reminds me of Chris Sabo...

Oh, by the way....I'm Roy Hobbs!

I doubt Crede's emergence as a player is substance related. He doesn't appear to be any bigger physically and steroids or hgh don't really help hand eye coordination. He's hitting more home runs because he's hitting the ball more often period.

I don't believe Crede is on the "juice", but to say that steroids and HGH don't help with hand-eye coordination is just uninformed.

_________________
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

Thank you A7X, who I am quite sure is a Sox guy.

and to think if Crede finishes batting over .300 with 35+ HR, and you compare him to Chris Sabo?????


Who if you look had 2 good years and making 2.75M and $3M in 1992?

Sorry to tell you, but Joe Crede is shooting for a 4 or 5 year deal starting at $7M a year.

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Uh...if Crede has a .300, 30, 100 year this year and follows it up next year he'll be a 11 or 12 million dollar guy. To compare Sabo's salary in 1992 isn't applicable based on the rise in salaries across MLB.

Sox Payroll going to be voer $100 Mill then? Dont they also have to pay Dye now if they want to keep him? and AJ? and Iguchi?

_________________
""I am now done at the Score."
Mike North, June 24, 2008

Dye has a club option at 6.5 million for next year. The Sox will certainly use the option as that is a steal for the production he has had the last two years. Same with Iguichi, who I believe is at about 2.5. AJ signed a two year plus option this offseason. I think he is in the 3-4 range.

All those people talking about trading minor leaguer Fields are crazy. If Crede does not sign a three year deal this offseason, the Sox need to seriously consider trading him. The three year deal gives the Sox an extra year before he enters FA but gives Crede more money than he would make in two years of arbitration. If he gets to FA I don't think he will be with the team.

I don't think Crede will have sucess if he leaves the Sox. He is a 7 hitter for the Sox and putting up great numbers. The Sox fans have been patient and he seems to love this enviroment. Any team that signs him will bat him in the middle of the line up and expect these big numbers. I don't think he'll produce under those circumstances.

Crede figures to get $12-13M in arbitration over the next couple of years. I think a fair offer this offseason would be in the 4y/$32M range. If he doesn't accept it, deal him and plug Fields in at third.