i've heard alot of people say both are bad or mediocre at best. I'm wondering how it's possible that at least one, if not both, aren't pretty good at what they do considering the bears have one of the best overall records in the league over the last several seasons

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

records dont matter to meatballs.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

You'd think that, at most, one of them would have to be at least decent. Apparently not.

Everyone knows I'm the charter member of the Angelo ALS.

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Fire Phil Emery

you'd think a winning team would have either a good coach and good players, a good coach making bad players good, or good players making a bad coach look good. A belichick, mcdaniels, or childress, if you will. I've never heard of a consistently winning team having a bad coach and bad players.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Lovie and his staff cannot develop talent and don't use the talent they are given properly.

Angelo has had a fair share of hits and misses. I find him very polarizing but am starting to think that he is more bad than good. His failures are piling up and his success has a lot of luck involved.

Both are stubborn and not very willing to adapt. I don't like that.

Even if the Bears were to win the Super Bowl Lovie would NEVER get the recognition a Super Bowl Coach would get. Angelo would be praised yet the perception would be that the Lovie was just along for the ride. He'll never be loved or respected because: a. He's not Ditka, b. He lacks the fire & the passion that so many casual observers think is necessary, c. He's not Ditka and d. (And this only goes for a small percentage of the fanbase) Because he's black.

The only thing that would possibly make him universally loved is multiple SB's, but I'm not even sure that would do the trick. Angelo would be hailed as the great architect that led the franchise to two SB's. Not that he wouldn't deserve credit, but it would much easier for Beardom to accept and embrace him than it would Lovie.

_________________
Raoh: At this moment, I'm more powerful than you ever were. I am fist of the north star.
Ryûken: I don't agree and I never shall. Go and do what you must Raoh, but never set foot in this dojo again!

spaulding how can both be bad and consistently put up a competitive team? And i'd argue the staff has certainly adapted after acquiring cutler. West i dont think race has anything to do with it and lovie would be as beloved as ditka almost with one ring

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

FF, you are wasting your time my man.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

It shouldn't, but sadly it does affect the way some would think. Ditka is treated like a God, yet he was a mediocre coach at best. Hell even Jauron was getting credit because his team was thought of as still playing hard even when they were out of it. Think about it, what coach did less with more over a five year stretch than Ditka? Bobby Cox maybe, or Marv Levy? At least Levy got to another SB. If I said to you of the two teams playing in SB XX who would get back to SB first, the Bears or the Pats? This town doesn't like to give credit to coaches other than Ditka. Phil Jackson had six rings and he's not beloved.

I hate to admit it, but we are a meatball town. Though in fairness Lovie gets no respect nationally either.

_________________
Raoh: At this moment, I'm more powerful than you ever were. I am fist of the north star.
Ryûken: I don't agree and I never shall. Go and do what you must Raoh, but never set foot in this dojo again!

Lovie Smith may be as successful as Mike Ditka, but that's where the comparison ends. While "Da Coach" was a larger than life figure during his career, Lovie doesn't have nearly the personality or charisma. Do you really think Lovie would put guys like Johnny Morris, Howard Sudberry & Red Mottlow in their place like Mike did back in the '80s? Absolutely not.

With the exception of 05 and 06 I don't think I'd call them consistently competitive. Even then - 05 the defense carried them and 06 special teams and defense carried them.

I don't feel they get what they should out of players and they don't use what they have properly. It's why I get accused of being to negative but I'm never really happy with what they are doing.

Funny in that sentence I had written It's why RFDC is always accusing me of being negative but then I decided I shouldn't call him out. Lo and behold I get the somebody made a post.

Spaulding, you can call me out, I still like ya. You aren't always negative, just about the Bears.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

2005 and 2006 = Chico's defense, right?

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If memory serves, Ron Rivera was the defensive coordinator of the '05-06 Bears and played for Ditka's World Champions 2 decades earlier as a player. He was fired after the '06 Bears went to the Super Bowl for reasons I can't answer. He might want to get the resume updated with the San Diego Chargers really struggling defensively right now...

Not to bring up the age old argument around these parts, but in 06 the offense was more than just along for the ride.

_________________
Raoh: At this moment, I'm more powerful than you ever were. I am fist of the north star.
Ryûken: I don't agree and I never shall. Go and do what you must Raoh, but never set foot in this dojo again!

He took a lot of heat for the defensive lapses against Steve Smith in 05. I still would love to know who in the end was making the decision on who to cover Smith. I guess I can forgive Peanut for tripping on the one TD, but the other one where "no name guy" (anderson?) let Smith run all over him.

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I'm not sure how good he was but the defense was better than it was under Babich. He did get a lot out of the players and the 2 years after him were terrible. I still can't figure Vasher. Marinelli is doing well if he keeps going I won't complain.

Ditka should have won more SBs but he surrounded himself with good coaches he didn't always agree with. Ryan was great and Hughes was no slouch. The talent they had helped too.

dont take this the wrong way but you seem to have a perfectionist attitude. Last year and this year your team is not competitive? Not everyone can be the colts or pats. I'd love to hear oakland spaulding or buffalo spaulding

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Part of the reason why Ditka didn't win more than 1 Super Bowl back in the '80s had a lot to do with the man who signed his checks, Michael McCaskey. Not only was McCaskey frugal, I think Ditka soured when his longtime General Manager and friend Jerry Vainisi was fired. Vainisi's position was basically eliminated, 1986-87 (?). The General Manager duties were assumed by the V.P. of Player Personnel, specifically Bill Tobin, Rod Graves and the late Mark Hatley, for the longest time until the Bears conducted a nationwide search to hire Jerry Angelo to the G.M. position.

I disagree. It was never consistent or dependable.

Yeah, you had the first five games, then that Minnesota debacle. I will say though, the Seattle playoff game was a thing of beauty to watch.

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Part of the reason why Ditka didn't win more than 1 Super Bowl back in the '80s had a lot to do with the man who signed his checks, Michael McCaskey. Not only was McCaskey frugal, I think Ditka soured when his longtime General Manager and friend Jerry Vainisi was fired. Vainisi's position was basically eliminated, 1986-87 (?). The General Manager duties were assumed by the V.P. of Player Personnel, specifically Bill Tobin, Rod Graves and the late Mark Hatley, for the longest time until the Bears conducted a nationwide search to hire Jerry Angelo to the G.M. position.[/quote

Ditka should have been fired after losing to Washington in 88. The McClaskey's frugal ways had nothing to do with it. All the way up until and through 89 the Bears were loaded, and if Ditka was that upset he should have stepped aside. I'll admit, as a kid I bought into all that Ditka/Bear weather crap until I saw Jerry Rice running down the sidelines for another TD.

_________________
Raoh: At this moment, I'm more powerful than you ever were. I am fist of the north star.
Ryûken: I don't agree and I never shall. Go and do what you must Raoh, but never set foot in this dojo again!

Maybe I'm a Virgo. I can let some things slide, a bad play or performance. Things are gonna happen. Last year the offensive line played better than I thought, Matt Forte was a nice suprise. Orton was okay, he'll never be great. The game they won against the Colts they probably should not have. The defense was aggravating. I did not like seeing them get spanked by Greise, Frerotte, and Schaub. The losses to Carolina and Atlanta were sickening as was the schelacking GB put on them.

I expected this year's offense to look better at this point or see an improvement week to week. It's not really happening. That's what gets under my skin.

Why can't we be the Colts or the Pats? Am I suppose to accept mediocrity?

I count the Arizona, Miami, New England, 2nd Minnesota, and SB as the times when the offense spit the bit. You could say the season finale against Green Bay but that game had no bearing on anything. The offense stepped up and won the Seattle playoff game and then dominated on the ground against the Saints.

_________________
Raoh: At this moment, I'm more powerful than you ever were. I am fist of the north star.
Ryûken: I don't agree and I never shall. Go and do what you must Raoh, but never set foot in this dojo again!

Mike Ditka may have been the Bears' head coach from 1982-92, but he overstayed his welcome here in Chicago by about 2 or 3 seasons. He probably should've been sent packing following the 1989 disaster in which the Bears went 6-10, and there was a classic Ditka meltdown after the Bears lost a game they probably should've won in Washington and lost to the Redskins. Following the Redskins' loss back then, Ditka's Bears didn't win a single game the rest of the '89 season.

I could accept losing to those 49ers teams though. They were good.



And then they all shit down their leg in Miami.

You are a doll SHARK!!!!

Spaulding, those 49ers teams back in the '80s were loaded with Hall-of-Famers and the late Bill Walsh & George Seifert coached those teams to 5 Super Bowl Championships back then. Ditka's Bears didn't have nearly the talent after winning their one & only Super Bowl in '85.

I'm not excusing the poor performance in the SB, obviously it's what matters most. I just think the perception has become that the offense was god awful in 06 and the defense somehow willed us to the SB. Is it possible that game changes dramatically if Manning doesn't blow his coverage?

_________________
Raoh: At this moment, I'm more powerful than you ever were. I am fist of the north star.
Ryûken: I don't agree and I never shall. Go and do what you must Raoh, but never set foot in this dojo again!

I think it was more the Bears didn't have the coaching and gameplanning ability to defeat those 49er teams.

_________________
Raoh: At this moment, I'm more powerful than you ever were. I am fist of the north star.
Ryûken: I don't agree and I never shall. Go and do what you must Raoh, but never set foot in this dojo again!

Peyton Manning had the Bear defense completely baffled in the rain at Super Bowl XLI in Miami, and was in complete control after Devin Hester started the game with a TD on the opening kickoff. Rex Grossman was out of sync & out of rhythm that evening in comparison. It wasn't all Rex's fault that the Bears lost.