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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:47 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
I was shocked by last night's performance and extremely happy. Joakim Noah gets the game ball for me. You can see a ton of improvement in his game and hitting the weights this summer instead of the ganja has definitely helped. He was a beast of the offensive glass, and his screens he set were much better than anything I saw out of him last year. And he even knocked down a jumper :lol: .

Tyrus looked like shit in the first half, and I was ready to jump on the i hate Tyrus bandwagon for the year after only two quarters. But something just clicked and he played a great 2nd half. In fact, I would say he was the entire reason the Bulls opened up that lead in the 2nd half. Luol Deng played a solid game and looks a little bigger this year as well. Salmons had a bad night but it was okay because of everyone else who stepped up.

Taj also showed some good flashes after a nervous first few minutes on the floor. My only complaint was about some of Vinny's substitutions. He pulled Noah in the first and third quarters after only 5-6 minutes. Both times Noah was dominating the glass and stepping up defensively. I thought he could have kept Joakim out there for a few extra minutes each time.


they didnt do anything they havent done at the end of last year, and all throughout the preseason. why were you shocked? why was everyone shocked? i told you guys the bull would punk san antonio... my buddy i was watchin the game with was yelling at me how the bulls will lose last night, and i just sat there and said "bite your tongue motherfucker." the look on his face at about the 2:30 mark in the 4th quarter was just awesome.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:49 am 
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:lol: You tell 'em, Ike.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:54 am 
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Yeah I agree on the Vinny substitutions. Taking out Rose early was obvious, but I didnt like how he handled some of the others subs, most noticeably Noah, like you pointed out. I agree Tyrus was the reason that lead went from 2 to 12 in the 3rd.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:57 am 
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I'm sorry but I won't take the Bulls seriously until they fire Vinny Del Negro.

I think they will win 50 games this year in spite of having a clueless coach.

I'll know management believes in this team the day they bring in a real coach.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:59 am 
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i recorded the game, we were flipping back and forth from the philly game... so i missed at least half the bulls. from what i saw though, derrik rose eerily reminded me of a certain guard that plays for LA........

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm sorry but I won't take the Bulls seriously until they fire Vinny Del Negro.

I think they will win 50 games this year in spite of having a clueless coach.

I'll know management believes in this team the day they bring in a real coach.


I agree, but we are basically stuck with him for at least this year and the next probably. One lucky thing for us is sometimes either a coach turns it around and improves, or a team wins the title despite its coach. I'm still not sure what category Doc falls under

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:03 pm 
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i dont know what to think of him. you cant imagine a 2nd year coach to be any good, but the bulls clearly have bought into him, and the entire team has a swagger to them as if they are supposed to go deep into the playoffs. the celtic game is going to be a blast- the bulls are going to bring their A game, no doubt.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Kurt...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Vinny's awful. They were running nothing sets all last night, and good passing and shooting made it work. Either they have some players who are too dumb or Vinny's a really bad offensive mind...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:08 pm 
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city, you cant say he is awful at offense when he is better at it then scott skiles... well maybe you can but cmon, we actually have offense now. something skiles couldnt even think about.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:09 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
Kurt...


Kirk...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:09 pm 
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IkeSouth wrote:
Krazy Ivan wrote:
Kurt...


Kirk...



Kurt...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Scott Skiles is an offensive genius. He got a team with half the talent of the current squad out of the first round. His plays were non-stop action, pick and roll, lots of Knight-style movement w/o the ball. Creative stuff. The reason he's gone is Pax drafted rookies who were too dumb to learn the system and Skiles gave up. He may have a decent year with the Bucks despite having zero NBA talent outside of Redd to work with.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:11 pm 
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I dont think Vinny is a bad offensive mind. I just think he doesnt know how to coach. It's possible he learns on the job. But the team is very unselfish and moves the ball very well(Except for Tyrus) and I hope thats a credit to Vinny.

Remember, Doc was universally agreed upon as one of the worst coaches in the league three years ago. An NBA coach has less to do in-game than any coach/manager of the four major sports. (I dont know for sure about hockey, but it seems like it.)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:12 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Scott Skiles is an offensive genius. He got a team with half the talent of the current squad out of the first round. His plays were non-stop action, pick and roll, lots of Knight-style movement w/o the ball. Creative stuff. The reason he's gone is Pax drafted rookies who were too dumb to learn the system and Skiles gave up. He may have a decent year with the Bucks despite having zero NBA talent outside of Redd to work with.


Bogut's a good player. I agree with your overall point though. He was one of the smartest players(except for punching Shaq) in the game when he played.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Hopefully Del Negro has 2.5 future hall of famers on his team to make up for how much he sucks.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:15 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Scott Skiles is an offensive genius. He got a team with half the talent of the current squad out of the first round. His plays were non-stop action, pick and roll, lots of Knight-style movement w/o the ball. Creative stuff. The reason he's gone is Pax drafted rookies who were too dumb to learn the system and Skiles gave up. He may have a decent year with the Bucks despite having zero NBA talent outside of Redd to work with.



im not so sure about all that. he had a lot of talent too, and that talent didnt like to play for him. 'offensive genius'? maybe with his x's and o's, but what good did that do for him when he was unable to translate that into something his players could follow?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Doc's a bad coach too.

My list of decent coaches:

George Karl-look at the headaches he has to work with and yet he got them within sniffing distance of the Finals. All right, Carmelo had a lot to do with that...

Rick Adelman-look at his record and the talent he had. He'll take yours and beat you or take his and beat yours.

Phil Jackson-just for his ego management.

Scott Skiles-the perfect guy to turn around a franchise with limited talent.

Mike Fratello-another guy that gets 150% out of the limited talent he's given.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hopefully Del Negro has 2.5 future hall of famers on his team to make up for how much he sucks.


Who wont make it? Pierce? All 3 are future HOF'ers. But they are all past their prime and Rondo is developing pretty nicely under him. I dont credit Doc for winning the title, but he certainly didnt mess up along the way and game by game he actually outcoached Phil in the Finals. Also kept him team together and playing above their talent level without KG down the stretch last season.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:17 pm 
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IkeSouth wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Scott Skiles is an offensive genius. He got a team with half the talent of the current squad out of the first round. His plays were non-stop action, pick and roll, lots of Knight-style movement w/o the ball. Creative stuff. The reason he's gone is Pax drafted rookies who were too dumb to learn the system and Skiles gave up. He may have a decent year with the Bucks despite having zero NBA talent outside of Redd to work with.



im not so sure about all that. he had a lot of talent too, and that talent didnt like to play for him. 'offensive genius'? maybe with his x's and o's, but what good did that do for him when he was unable to translate that into something his players could follow?

please name me his "talent".

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:17 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hopefully Del Negro has 2.5 future hall of famers on his team to make up for how much he sucks.


Who wont make it? Pierce? All 3 are future HOF'ers. But they are all past their prime and Rondo is developing pretty nicely under him. I dont credit Doc for winning the title, but he certainly didnt mess up along the way and game by game he actually outcoached Phil in the Finals. Also kept him team together and playing above their talent level without KG down the stretch last season.

I'm not sold on Ray Allen.

Garnett for sure.
Pierce sealed it with his finals performance vs. Kobe. He was borderline.

I've never really ever considered Ray Allen a top 5 NBA player in any year. I think he belongs in the really, really good for a really, really long time hall of fame.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:18 pm 
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Phil Jackson WAS one of the best of all time. He hasn't been a good coach since returning to the Lakers. Epitome of the term "Living off reputation" now. I dont think Karl is that good of a coach. He can be, and maybe he's mellowed enough a la Tom Coughlin to have continued success at one place finally. Flip Saunders is a decent coach. I've always thought Rick Carlisle was good. Larry Brown was a great coach, not so sure if he still is. I'm impressed with Eric Spoelstra(sp?) I think he's gonna be a very good coach for a long time.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:18 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:

Scott Skiles-the perfect guy to turn around a franchise with limited talent.


um... he had limited success in chicago, and milwaukee is looking like a disaster.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hopefully Del Negro has 2.5 future hall of famers on his team to make up for how much he sucks.


Who wont make it? Pierce? All 3 are future HOF'ers. But they are all past their prime and Rondo is developing pretty nicely under him. I dont credit Doc for winning the title, but he certainly didnt mess up along the way and game by game he actually outcoached Phil in the Finals. Also kept him team together and playing above their talent level without KG down the stretch last season.

I'm not sold on Ray Allen.

Garnett for sure.
Pierce sealed it with his finals performance vs. Kobe. He was borderline.

I've never really ever considered Ray Allen a top 5 NBA player in any year. I think he belongs in the really, really good for a really, really long time hall of fame.


He's has as good a career as Reggie Miller. Maybe better. And considering it's the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF, I think he will definitely get in.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:22 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
City of Fools wrote:

please name me his "talent".


hinrich, gordon, deng, tyson chandler, eddy curry to name a few. forgot, nocioni. its not like the bulls were shit, skiles got a lot out of them, yes- but look what vinny has. a bunch of kids just like skiles, and our offense is 2x better then it ever was with skiles. so what if vinny cant draw up an inbound play as good, those only get you so many buckets.

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Last edited by IkeSouth on Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:23 pm 
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Derrick Rose is way better than anyone Skiles had.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:25 pm 
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IkeSouth wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
City of Fools wrote:

please name me his "talent".


hinrich, gordon, deng, tyson chandler, eddy curry to name a few. its not like the bulls were shit, skiles got a lot out of them, yes- but look what vinny has. a bunch of kids just like skiles, and our offense is 2x better then it ever was with skiles. so what if vinny cant draw up an inbound play as good, those only get you so many buckets.

none of those guys are a difference maker. They're all complementary.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:27 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Derrick Rose is way better than anyone Skiles had.


he's better then gordon, but on many nights thats a wash. rose has the potential that is for sure, but skiles was made out to look good on many nights just because ben gordon was awake.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:28 pm 
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[/quote]
none of those guys are a difference maker. They're all complementary.[/quote]

gordon is not a difference maker? dont say stupid things...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:30 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
He's has as good a career as Reggie Miller. Maybe better. And considering it's the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF, I think he will definitely get in.

They may have had similar careers but just like Rip Hamilton, Reggie Miller had a much larger impact. Ray Allen is a very forgettable player in the grand scheme of the NBA.

It's not the only criteria but I like to think of what is the signature moment of that player. I believe that any hall of fame player should have one memorable moment or thing that made him truly special. Pierce got his by outplaying Kobe in that finals.

What is the signature moment in Ray Allens career?

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