none of those guys are a difference maker. They're all complementary.[/quote]

gordon is not a difference maker? dont say stupid things...[/quote]
Ike, I'm happy for you (and myself) that the Bulls are a BETTER team w/o Gordon and his defensive lapses...

And I'm sad for you that this disproves your point...

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

gordon is not a difference maker? dont say stupid things...[/quote]
Ike, I'm happy for you (and myself) that the Bulls are a BETTER team w/o Gordon and his defensive lapses...

And I'm sad for you that this disproves your point...[/quote]

the only reason we wont miss gordon is because we have rose now. clear and plain as day. you must have forgot about all those games we had NO BUSINESS WINNING. including last year in the playoffs.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

what doesn't show up in the stats column but shows up in the W-L column is Ben's complete lack of defense, which really harmed the Bulls' team defense as Tyrus was also an awful defender last year (and to an extent Noah and Deng) I'm not so sure they don't get a better seed and face off against somebody else last season w/o Gordon. We'll see how he helps the Pistons, although they're a better defensive team more able to get around his shortcomings...

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

yes, i get it. i know gordon doesnt like to play defense (he can play it, we have seen it. he doesnt like to), but i also know the double teams he draws on offense offsets a ton of those giveups on the other end.

you make it seem like gordon is not a player anyone would want. he didnt want to be here, he wanted to be big-time, and now in detriot he has that chance. what scares me is that he DOES have the talent, and dont be surprised that with a better fitting team his defensive output picks up....

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Ike...I agree with that part. But I'd rather be a Bulls fan right now than a Pistons fan. Ben and Rip are going to have to learn how to interact offensively, and that will take some time.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

i said it wrong, i knew you agreed with that, that is what you were saying. i was trying to imply that gordon might become solid on defense now- because he is playing in a system he wants to be in.

i edited it, so its confusing now but oh well

and i agree, i think the bulls are a better team. maybe not on paper, but it really seems like that team that we had in 05 or whatever, that team with baby kirk and gordon... and nocioni... that team that won 47 games... it seems to be back. they have that hunger again, they look like theyre ready to really screw up a lot of other teams' plans.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Vinny has led this team to a 1-0 record. He is great.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Well he's always performed well in the playoffs. Pierce maybe outplayed Kobe but Allen vastly helped with that. He defended Kobe alot of the series and played great against him. He also overcame his early playoff slump and played great. He dropped 52, I think, on the Bulls and had an epic series in that first round win. To compare Allen to Rip Hamilton is borderline insulting to Allen. He's had a HOF career.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He wasnt bad last night but he has a horrible, albeit short, coaching history so far.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Tom Ricketts is a great owner.

Who's Tom Ricketts?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Vinny should take 'em all to Wendy's again...


ah.

Seriously Ike, I can't believe I'm having a cogent conversation with you. The world has turned upside down...

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

New Cub owner.

Just joking. i actually agree with your greatness happens early, the recognition comes later

It's not hate. I said I think he's one of the best coaches ever, just not anymore. It's not all about results. It's about what you do, as a coach, to get those results. If I coached the Lakers instead of Phil I'm pretty sure they would win more games and go deeper in the playoffs than Miami, but I wouldn't be close to as good a coach as Eric Spoelstra. Phil in the playoffs has repeatedly not taken advantage of matchups favorable to him, forced his team to play an inferior teams tempo(see: Rocket's series last season), and not called timeouts or done anything to prevent leads from escalating to being insurmountable(2006 series against the Suns, Game 7, 2008 Finals, Game 6 Boston, etc.) He simply has not done a great job in important games. He has probably the most talented roster in the league though, and one of the deepest. I wouldn't say he's bad, but he's not great, definitely not the best in the league. He has been outcoached by Rick Adelman and Doc Rivers in memorable series just the last two seasons. He's old, and has clearly lost a bit of his fastball.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He outcoached what you think is the best coach in the NBA right now to win that title. He routinely made better substitutions, made every right decision in game 4 to contain that deficit and eventually come back and beat them, and played Kobe perfectly.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I wasnt following Simmons anymore when the Celtics won, did he do a 180 on Rivers or did he say Anybody could win with that team?

No I remember them fine. I know he has a history of doing that. It's not ALWAYS a good idea. It's especially not always smart in the first half when the timeouts arent as valuable. I guess you were fine with him standing by when he and his team were embarrassed in the clinching game against the Suns in 2006 and C's in 2008. I was too, but I'm not a big lakers fan. It's basketball stupid to say results make a coach good or not. Yes he has a tremendous history. Coaches arent always on their A game forever. You seem like the type to just blindly point to that stat and refuse to actually analyze any of his moves lately. I like to think a bit more critically while watching.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He's also had a better roster. If Ginobli is healthy two years ago that WCF is much different. And as for Pau and Odom playing like pussies.. maybe you dont set the bar too high for your coaches but I like to think coaches actually effect, or should effect, the way their players play.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul