Mind you, Moose bites can be pretti nasti too.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

And yet, they still were sold, and if you didn't buy them, someone else would.

Im just curious, what possible scenario would cause you to not renew for the following season? How much would they have to increase the price, or how bad would the team have to be?

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I know you're talking to bigfan, but I can tell you that the scenario is I don't at least break even for two seasons in a row, I'm done. Can't afford to lose money.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

My friend has the same theory on his Bears tickets.

I bought in 2003 for the first time and I went to every game. Then I had no money to pay for 2004, so I had to take money out of savings. I learned my lesson and discovered stubhub. Never again. Last year I went to opening day-that was it. I can watch the game just as well on the tube. I'm a huge fan, but I live an hour and a half from the city and I just wait for the playoffs now.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

This is exactly what the Cubs want to eliminate I'm sure. They don't make any money off of you. In their perspective, you are getting free game tickets by simply taking a cut of the added value of the tickets. The Cubs would make more money if they simply cut you out and then added the cost you would pay in order to go to a game.

I think it's great that you found a way to beat the system like this but the Cubs really don't owe you anything for it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

of course they don't owe me anything.

for those of you who think the Cubs would continue to sell out Wrigley with a perennial non-playoff making team, you're deluded. If there's no profit, there's no scalpers (and a lot less season ticket holders). If there's no scalpers, there's no sellouts. If there's no sellouts, there's no urgency to go to the field (I can go anytime) therefore no urgency to buy tickets. April and May are very weak months for contending Cubs teams. They'd never sell out April and parts of May, that's for sure if they weren't contending for +2 years.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I agree with most of your point...but I think your logic is off a bit

Why do you start your explanation with No Profit? You think playoffs are the only way to make a profit?

here's what the scalpers do: they buy a full season of Cubs games, including all the hard-to-sell day games and April and May games. They lose most of the money they paid on those. They can't sell 'em at face consistently or people will come to expect that. So they eat them. They then have to make twice the profit in June/July/August to even break even. To make a good profit (which they need to because it's 4-5 hours every game day, almost like a part time job) they've really got to make huge money on the big games. If the Cubs are awful for two seasons in a row (2005/2006 for example) tickets STOP moving, even for face. People don't understand this. When they complain about not being able to see a Cubs game because of the secondary market, they're simply not trying hard enough. I've sold more than my face tickets even in good years. So are the playoffs the only way to make money? Of course not. But they can be the difference between making out and living large. A bad team doesn't just not go to the playoffs...they slowly suck the life out of a ticket market, month by month. If they're out of it by June or July, you're missing out on your biggest profit margins.

I make out better because I do the combo plan, which is only weekday nights and weekend day/night games. Not sure why the Cubs do that package since it's infinitely more preferable, but it could be because I bought in 2003 and 1999-2002 had been so awful. Last year was barely break even. 2007/2008 was very good to me, but it had to make up for '05 and '06.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

The Cubs don't really care about sell outs. It's nice and good for marketing but they care mostly about revenue while still keeping the park mostly full. There is a total amount of money that Cubs fans are willing to spend. That's why people are willing to pay you so much over face value. However, a fairly large portion is being sliced off by people who take it as a profit or use it to go to games for free. If the scalpers disappeared completely the same money would go into the system but a group of people wouldn't be pocketing it instead. It's possible that the secondary market would actually become more affordable then.

Would some seats go unsold in April and May? Possibly but not likely with a good pricing strategy. Would the Cubs increase revenue either way? Of course.

Realistically COF, you make a large profit on your tickets. You just use them to buy the other tickets. That's not good for the Cubs but very good for you.

The Cubs have a fan base estimated to be at least double the size of the White Sox. It may even be more if you include the Iowa, Indianapolis, and other markets. The Sox make a disproportionate amount of revenue vs. the Cubs without selling out every game.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not with you on that, Rick. I think you underestimate the power of the "unatainable" especially in the more expensive seats, which are the Cubs moneymakers.
Well, of course it would be more affordable.
they'd have to completely change the way they are, the whole attitude of the Cubs. The current attitude (even after JMac) is "screw you, common fan...we can replace you at anytime". Which I understand as supply and demand. My argument is they would lose a ton of demand should the team be bad for +2 years. 2007's ticket market didn't heat up until August. Cubs fans are becoming more cynical and skeptical.
. Yes. I wouldn't call it a large profit since 2004 and 2007-08 had to subsidize 2005/2006, but I agree with your point there.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I'm basing that on past history.

In 1999 and 2000, the Cubs set 2 franchise records- most losses in back to back season and most people thru the turnstyles in back to back seasons.

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Perennial non-playoff making team, Frank. They made the playoffs in 1998! By 2003, they were gasping for air-no waiting list (I called and had the combo plan the same day) and they were desparate enough to give me the combo plan, which is the cream of the crop. In fact, in 2003 they let me have a full share of playoff games even though I had only a part season ticket. April, May and June were poorly attended and things really didn't pick up attendance wise until the Lofton/Simon Pirates steal. In fact, I don't think the Cubs would have made the playoffs without Lofton. Go back and look at the record.
All that's needed to upset the apple cart is +2 seasons of losing. 1998, they made the playoffs which got people through the turnstiles in '99, '00. They were happy just to have made the playoffs. 2003, they made the playoffs and it became an expectation. Seismic change.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

The Cubs don't need scalpers to sell out. There scalpers only take money away from the total pool of money. They rarely ever add money. The only "risk" for the Cubs is to not make as much money as they would but most of the time they'll meet or exceed it.
Which would only help fill the stadium more.
Of course a better team means more sales but ticket demand is always large and most seats are sold far in advance. They may lose some sell outs but they'd also be taking an extra 10% of every ticket. If they raise prices by 10%, they can afford to sell many less tickets with no risk.

Over those seasons how many games did you also attend? You are getting paid in free tickets rather than cash. Let's say you've attended 100 games over that time period. I don't know what the face value of your tickets are but let's just say that it is $35. You've also gotten $35,000 worth of benefit from those tickets.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

let me apologize for getting all MITC quoty on you, Rick. We're gonna argue this to a standstill, I have a feeling.

I disagree, with one proviso-bad seasons, 2+. Good seasons, they'll be just fine without scalpers. Bad seasons, scaplers buy tickets that don't get sold even at face. April/May/September. Outside of Opening Day, you'd see 15k tops. Maybe more in May. The Cubs aren't the deal making types, which takes Sox-style ticket marketing off the table. Would it fill the stadium more? It can't be filled more in good seasons. Bad seasons, without your friendly scalpers, 3 months out of six it's half full, even with face value or below tickets being sold.

no, because even in good years, you'll be lucky to get 15k through 3 out of 6 months. Bad years, you'll see the same plus 20k-25k in June/July/August.


2003-barely missed a game.
2004-30+ games
2005-20+ games
2006-Opening Day+2 games
2007-Opening Day
2008-Opening Day
2009-Opening Day
That's my MO now. I sell till I break even or make a profit. I'll go to any playoff games. Look, I'm not defending myself or scalpers. I'm mainly arguing that those who think Wrigley will always be full are underestimating the power of the scalpers. The Cubs won't eliminate scalping because it sells them 3 out of 6 months they can't sell at almost any price and the markup doesn't hurt their bottom line.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

So the Cubs will draw worse than the White Sox? I don't agree.

Attendance wouldn't change much. No shows would since scalpers do eat tickets for games but the same people last year who attended a game at the scalper's inflated prices would still go without scalpers.

I'm not saying Wrigley will always be full. It won't be. However, the Cubs will make more money even without selling out.

The scalpers don't raise attendance. They raise the price of the secondary market and in order to squeeze out more money they'll often decrease the supply of tickets available in order to sell more of them at a higher price. That's why you always see them holding 10+ tickets even when the game is about to start.

In really bad seasons the Cubs may make less money but if a scalper can make enough profit in order to make it worthwhile then the Cubs will likely have the same ability to make a ton of money in the long run.

Without scalpers, the exact same number of people would attend games. There may even be more since more tickets would be available. However, there may be less tickets sold and then not used but the Cubs can clearly make up the difference with higher ticket prices.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Just because Wrigley is not full, doesn't mean the Cubs are eating tickets. Until I'm proven otherwise by seeing the Cubs sell less than 30,000 tickets to several games in a row, I can't believe Wrigley will ever be less than full (relatively speaking, say 90% attendance).

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The Blackhawks had some of the most expensive tickets in the NHL during the decade of shit that preceeded Wirtz death.

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Maybe..but I know I sure as hell enjoyed my $8 300 level seats with a student id. Sit wherever you wanted since the place was empty.

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Team Cutler.

OK, maybe ticket prices sucked too. That bolsters my argument. Low priced tickets, even if a substantial percentage are resold, halp maintain a fan base for future sales. The Hawks aren't hurting now, but that's because they're not struggling. The Cubs are in a position where they can survive a spell of mediocre play, much like the Bulls are. The Hawks don't have that luxury. The TV restrictions still probably paid the largest role in that, but high ticket prices hurt too, I guess. All the more reason to allow scalper skimming.

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Fire Phil Emery

As I am writing a "personal check" for over $11,000 this year, I hope that Mr. Ricketts is ready to 'personally' make this team better, because he was cocnerned about people getting "personal" if they have issues with the way this team is run.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”