Stats are nice but they won what and when after Elway?

I could careless about having 1000 yard rushers and QBs having good years and yet still miss the playoffs.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I haven't seen anything about Jay Cutler that tells me that he has earned the right to be the only thing that matters for an organization. They should invest in an offensive coordinator who Cutler likes and can attempt to take advantage of him but it's a mistake to put the entire fate of the franchise on his shoulders. I am still having a hard time rectifying the fierce argument that Cutler is not the problem here but that he needs to be "fixed". With many of the responses to my admittedly negative thoughts on Cutler you'd think that this year was simply a fluke and that it will get better next year. If that is the case, then why not worry about the defense and the offensive line/running game and other stuff and just let Cutler return to above average and eventually become great?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You just made my point about Shanny. Lovie's recent record is better than his.

Cowher has had better success than both of them.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

That was actually pretty good

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It took the "legendary" Bill Cowher 14 years to reach a SuperBowl.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

To win one. Cowher, like Lovie, lost the Super Bowl in his 3rd year as a head coach.

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WHHOOOPPSS! Is that with "Slash" at QB? I forgot about that!

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Twist it however you want, but the fact remains that post-Elway, Lovie's record was better than Shanny and his "great" offense.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

That was the Neil O'Donnell year I think. Those were the years when the AFC was rolling out the Stan Humphries and Neil O'Donnell's of the world.

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You know me like that.

How many Super Bowl losing coaches were first timers?

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@audioidkid

EDIT - 8 out of 10. Belichick and Holmgren

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You know me like that.

Here are some names that I would think twice about:

Dave Taub: That's right! His Special Teams are the one shining unit over a span of 6 years!

Leslie Frazier: He has former head coaching expierience (SIU?),former standout corner for Bears who had a "career-ender" in the Super Bowl.

Jason Garrett: Former QB who now as off. co-ordinator on Dallas has team moving!Over the course of the last two seasons, the Dallas offense has averaged 25.5 points-per-game and over 355 yards in total offense per-outing. Under Garrett's tutelage seven of Dallas' offensive players have made trips to the Pro Bowl, while two of those men, running back Marion Barber and guard Leonard Davis, earned their first career Pro Bowl selections.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

I could go with Frazier or Garrett but I'd prefer Frazier I think. He has more coaching experience and I think Garrett would be too expensive for the McCaskeys anyway.

I think Frazier was at Trinity. I don't remember him at SIU but I could be wrong.

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You know me like that.

Ya, just what they need, a soft spoken defensive coordinator that benefits from a well balanced powerhouse offense.

Ron Rivera
Leslie Frazier
Gary Kubiak
Mike Heimerdinger
and Bill Cowher

...should be the guys interviewed.


and Greg Blache just to waste his time.

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Disclaimer: Most of my posts are not suitable for work or home viewing.

The name's Rockmore. Beef Rockmore

And Cowher's choke jobs at HOME AFC Championship Game's is legendary.

1994-95 San Diego Chargers 17 Pittsburgh Steelers 13 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Three Rivers Stadium

1995-96 Pittsburgh Steelers 20 Indianapolis Colts 16 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Three Rivers Stadium - HEY THEY WON ONE!!!!

1997-98 Denver Broncos 24 Pittsburgh Steelers 21 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Three Rivers Stadium

2001-02 New England Patriots 24 Pittsburgh Steelers 17 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Heinz Field

2004-05 New England Patriots 41 Pittsburgh Steelers 27 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Heinz Field

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Disclaimer: Most of my posts are not suitable for work or home viewing.

The name's Rockmore. Beef Rockmore

there were 7 first time head coaches as losers in the past 10 super bowls.

Jeff Fisher (SB 34)
Jim Fassel (who lost to first time coach Brian Billick in Super Bowl 35)
Bill Callahan (SB 37)
John Fox (SB 38)
Andy Reid (SB 39)
Lovie Smith (SB 41)
Ken Whisenhunt (SB 43)

First time coaches to win the Super Bowl in that time. Bill Cowher, Brian Billick, and Mike Tomlin.

in that same 10 year period....
first time coach John Gruden left the Raiders to coach against Bill Callahan in the following years Super Bowl for Tampa Bay...

going back to 12 super bowls and we have another first time coach in Mike Holmgren.

so, 10 out of 20 coaches in the past 10 super bowls were first time coaches.
11 out of the 24 coaches in the past 12 super bowls were first time coaches.

Bill Cowher is the only first time head coach to lose and win a SB with the same team.
Mike Holmgren is the only head coach to win (Packers) and then lose (Seahawks) a SB with different teams (in 12 years)....losing to first time coach Bill Cowher.

so...basically you have a shitty chance of winning the super bowl as a first time coach. but a pretty good chance of losing the super bowl as a first time coach.

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@audioidkid

Huh?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

i just thought of something...

if the Colts win the SB this year, it will be twice that Tony Grungy (sic) has left a team that wins the SB the following year.

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@audioidkid

bill cowher only coached the steelers...therefore he was always a "first time head coach"

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@audioidkid

Apparently. And it's 8 out of 10. You forgot Mike Martz.

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You know me like that.

you're right...i did. i had sobbing Dick on my mind (pun).

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@audioidkid

Wasn't Dungy a first time winner?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Dungy was with TB.

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You know me like that.

yep....he coached tampa bay and was fired the year before Gruden won....(see my post above about Grungy)

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@audioidkid

And, this may be stretching the 10yr limit, but Belicheck won his first outing as well

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It seems people are talking about 2 different things.

First time in the Superbowl

or

First time headcoach with a team

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

nope...he coached cleveland.

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@audioidkid

Reading the entire thread, or perhaps just thinking about it for a moment would've helped. I apologi.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

what is the argument though? clearly first time coaches can win their conferences and get to the super bowl....
but they only win 30% of the time (in the past 10 years).

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@audioidkid

doug, you forgot holmgren also lost the packers 2nd super bowl

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul