There aren't too many 'defensive finalists' this year. Only 5. John Randle, Richard Dent and Charles Haley are all worthy imho. Ricky Jackson isn't worthy, as that team that never won a playoff game. Cortez Kennedy is a bloted joke.

However... Charles Haley is HATED by the media (plenty of stories about his locker room angst towards the media aka waving his dick around while they were in 'room' and meeting room demeanor aka masturbating during team meetings) - this is gonna be Richard's best opportunity:

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/n ... id=4890165

Tim Brown – Wide Receiver/Kick Returner – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter – Wide Receiver – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell – Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig – Running Back – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Dermontti Dawson – Center – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Richard Dent – Defensive End – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles

Russ Grimm – Guard – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins

Charles Haley – Defensive End/Linebacker – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Rickey Jackson – Linebacker – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers

Cortez Kennedy – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Dick LeBeau* – Cornerback – 1959-1972 Detroit Lions

Floyd Little* – Running Back – 1967-1975 Denver Broncos

John Randle – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks

Andre Reed – Wide Receiver – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Jerry Rice – Wide Receiver – 1985-2000 San Francisco 49ers, 2001-04 Oakland Raiders, 2004 Seattle Seahawks

Shannon Sharpe – Tight End – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens

Emmitt Smith – Running Back – 1990-2002 Dallas Cowboys, 2003-04 Arizona Cardinals

Carter, Dawson, Dent, Grimm, Kennedy, Randle, Reed, and Sharpe have all been finalists in previous years.

How is Rickey Jackson not worthy because of the team around him?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Charles Haley doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the hall of fame.

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Fire Phil Emery

Was Rickey Jackson amongst the 'best at his position' during his career? I say no.

Charles Haley has five Super Bowl rings and dominated on the field.

But that was not your reason you first listed. You said he did not deserve it because his team did not win a playoff game. Don't change your argument in midstream.

And for the record, yes I think Jackson was amongst the best LBs during his career. But if you want to say he was not among the best during his career, that is a much stronger argument than saying he does not deserve it because his team never won a playoff game.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

First of all, I never said you 'HAD to win a playoff game to get' in. Just ask Butkus and Sayers.

Second of all, upon further review, he was amongst the best at his position (but unfortunately played for the Saints, so he flew under the radar)

Third of all, he did win a Super Bowl.

Fourth of all, I've flip-flopped - he's Hall of Fame worthy!

Who cares how many rings he had. Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, Ronnie Lott, Deion Sanders, Larry Allen, and whole slew of other players had more to do with that then Charles Haley. And he was so "dominant" at his position that he had 200 fewer tackles, 60 fewer sacks, and just as many pro bowls and all pro seasons as Kevin Greene, who wasn't even a finalist. He wasn't even one of the better defenders on the Dallas teams; he ranked third in sacks and wasn't in the top 12 in tackles. He also didn't play much past the age of 30, and wasn't all that good from 28 onward.

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Fire Phil Emery

Irish Boy, let's talk D-Ends on those Niners and Cowboys teams.

Andre Reed needs to get some love, but i can not see him going in before carter.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

Kinda coincidental the former Saint gets much love the only time the Saints make the Super Bowl, but it's deserved.

I'm glad Cris Carter didn't make it - and I'm glad that another O-lineman made it.

Also pretty pleased that the ratio of defensive players to offensive players was pretty much split down the middle.

Probably one of the greatest HOF classes ever btw - sure Emmitt and Jerry Rice are the reason why, but Grimm and LeBeau were (are) and were no slouches either.

Neither Grimm nor LeBeau deserve to be in the HOF.

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Fire Phil Emery

I'm curious IB, why is that?

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So IB, who that was eligible should be inducted this year?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Me and RalphFurleyDC on the same page.

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You mean your fellow balck lodge member RFDC, right?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I have no problem with Rice, Smith, Doleman and Jackson. Senior nominees almost universally blow; they're the guys that weren't good enough to get in before, and now they're being nominated for nostalgia purposes. Cris Carter, Shannon Sharpe, or Richard Dent would have been fine. Russ Grimm didn't play long enough for a guard.

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Fire Phil Emery

He played for 10 seasons. How many is necessary?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

For a guard? More than that. There are something like 58 offensive linemen with more pro bowls than Grimm. 29 offensive linemen have three or more all-pro selections and aren't in the HOF (Grimm has 3). He also played for 10 seasons but only started 114 games, which is only about 7 seasons worth of games. Finally, he was the guy that fucked up on the "Joe Theisman gets his leg snapped in half" play. MEAT AND POTATOES.

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Fire Phil Emery

# of pro bowls really means nothing in all of this, the pro bowl is just a popularity contest. While he did only start 114 games, he played in 140 games, and while he was on the field he was one of the most dominating run blocking guards during his era. And if offensive lineman were not allowed in for missing an assignment and allowing a sack, none of them would ever make the HOF.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Your application is still in review.

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Not according to OKC

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

He's barely in the lodge himself.

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This may require a new thread.

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