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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:40 pm 
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http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/frank-thomas-officially-retires.html


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:20 pm 
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First ballot Hall of Famer.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:29 pm 
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Probably the best right handed hitter I'll see in my lifetime. Also more than likely did NOT do steroids which futher vindicates just how awesome of a hitter he really was in his prime.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Fun fact:

Wikipedia wrote:
He is part of an elite group of four players (including Mel Ott, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams) to have at least a .300 batting average, 500 home runs, 1,500 RBI, 1,000 runs and 1,500 walks in a career.


And my favorite article written about the Hurt:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... uth-hurts/

John Brattain wrote:
Frank Thomas isn’t a pure home run hitter a la Mark McGwire. He isn’t a pure singles hitter like Ichiro. He’s been as pure an all-around hitter as you’ll find. Probably the best example is this: Ted Williams enjoyed a rather remarkable skein early in his career. He had six consecutive seasons in which he hit at least .300, with at least 20 HR and 100 runs/RBI/walks. In 1997, Thomas did him one better and enjoyed his seventh consecutive .300 season, with at least 20 home runs and 100 runs/RBI/walks.

I’m not saying that make Thomas (who enjoyed 500+ more at-bats over their respective runs) is in the same stratosphere as Williams, but he wasn’t exactly miles away either:

Ted Williams (1941-42, 46-49) Frank Thomas (1991-1997)

BA/OBP/SLG R HR RBI BB
Williams .359/.505/.657 817 211 780 898
Thomas .330/.452/.604 746 250 823 835

It takes a very special type of hitter to pull that off. You have to have a great batting eye, discipline, power and be able to maintain your ability to hit with the pressure that comes when runners are on base. You also have to remain healthy. The fact only Williams and Thomas have been the only hitters to pull it off speaks volumes as to Thomas' greatness. Let’s not forget that his streak was not derailed by the players’ strike that shortened both the 1994 and 1995 seasons.

Of course we’re just dealing with a seven-year stretch of his career. What about his totals to date? How do they stack up historically? To really get a grasp on this (if indeed such a thing is possible) we need to use adjusted stats; numbers that are adjusted for both era and ballpark. They’re not perfect, but they do a better job than traditional stats. Two that I like to use are Baseball Reference’s adjusted OPS-plus (*OPS+) and Lee Sinins’ Runs Created Above Average (RCAA) in that they adjust for both park and era.


http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... uth-hurts/

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Last edited by suckers playground on Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:55 pm 
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I loved watching Frank hit but I'd rather have Pujols. He could at least field and may end up with every record there is. Steroids??? maybe.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Great. Another statue.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:40 pm 
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I wonder if the Ranger might have some company on his 670 The SCORE/White Sox Radio Network postgame shows this season or if Bill Melton might have a little company in the Comcast SportsNet studio after Sox games this season with Big Frank retiring...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:43 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Probably the best right handed hitter I'll see in my lifetime.


Yeah he was great, but Pujols is pretty dang good too. Not sure which one is better

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Frank was pretty dominant. The only mark that might prevent 1st ballot is the fact that he was mostly a DH.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
Frank was pretty dominant. The only mark that might prevent 1st ballot is the fact that he was mostly a DH.

The same could be said about the Mariners' Edgar Martinez, Apologist, when his name is on the ballot in the next year or two. Ditto for Jim Thome when he calls it a career himself.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:04 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
Frank was pretty dominant. The only mark that might prevent 1st ballot is the fact that he was mostly a DH.


The only other hitter of his era that you can compare him to is Griffey. I don't see how that hurts his 1st ballot status.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Paul Molitor played 44% of his games as a DH and he was a first ballot Hall of Famer


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:35 am 
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SHARK wrote:
Apologist wrote:
Frank was pretty dominant. The only mark that might prevent 1st ballot is the fact that he was mostly a DH.

The same could be said about the Mariners' Edgar Martinez, Apologist, when his name is on the ballot in the next year or two. Ditto for Jim Thome when he calls it a career himself.


I don't think either of those guys are first ballot. Voters are fickle. We'll see with Frank.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:06 am 
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Really? I think all 3 of them are, as is Frank.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:07 am 
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You think Thome is a first ballot guy????

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:08 am 
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My favorite all time Sox player, behind Eric Soderholm.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:09 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Probably the best right handed hitter I'll see in my lifetime.


Yeah he was great, but Pujols is pretty dang good too. Not sure which one is better

Pujols is clearly better. More consistent. Less injured. Better fielder. He is Frank Thomas MVP version, all the time.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:10 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Probably the best right handed hitter I'll see in my lifetime.


Yeah he was great, but Pujols is pretty dang good too. Not sure which one is better

Pujols is clearly better. More consistent. Less injured. Better fielder. He is Frank Thomas MVP version, all the time.


All around you are probably right, I was speaking just at the plate, who was/is the better hitter.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:11 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:12 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Pujols is clearly better. More consistent. Less injured. Better fielder. He is Frank Thomas MVP version, all the time.

I agree. I would probably make Thomas the best "clean" right handed hitter of the 90's. If he would have led the league in hits during that period, he would definitely be a first ballot guy for me. :D

(I put 'clean' in quotes because I don't think he used, but if it ever came out that he did, I would not be surprised.)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:16 am 
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162 game averages

Pujols
HR RBI BA OPB SLG OPS
42 129 .334 .427 .628 1.055

Thomas
36 119 .301 .419 .555 .974


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:17 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
(I put 'clean' in quotes because I don't think he used, but if it ever came out that he did, I would not be surprised.)

He would be the only guy that would really surprise and sadden me. Well, Big Frank and Greg Maddux. Everyone else might as well be guilty until proven innocent.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:21 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
162 game averages

Pujols
HR RBI BA OPB SLG OPS
42 129 .334 .427 .628 1.055

Thomas
36 119 .301 .419 .555 .974

They're both great. But, as Suckers quoted, from '91 to '97, Frank Thomas had one of the best runs in the history of baseball. Pujols can't say that he garnered all of the following in at least 6 consecutive years: at least 20 HRs, .300 avg, and 100 RBI/R/BB.

IF there is one big advantage that Pujols has over the Big Hurt, its that Albert has done pretty well in the playoffs, and Frank did not (at least with the Sox, though I do remember him getting a whole ton of walks in the '93 ALCS).

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:30 am 
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Frank was a proponent of testing for PEDs from his first days in the league. And honestly, if there was anything dirty about him, I'm pretty sure Canseco would have ratted him out from his time on the South Side.

Giambi should forfeit his 2000 AL MVP and give it to Frank.

.328/43/143 with an OPS of 1.067.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:32 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
162 game averages

Pujols
HR RBI BA OPB SLG OPS
42 129 .334 .427 .628 1.055

Thomas
36 119 .301 .419 .555 .974


It is not really fair to Frank to make this comparison yet on averages. This includes the years Frank has dropped off as he got older. Pujols has not reached that point yet What are the numbers like when you just look at Frank's amazing run?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:34 am 
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pujols is juiced.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:35 am 
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RFDC wrote:

It is not really fair to Frank to make this comparison yet on averages. This includes the years Frank has dropped off as he got older. Pujols has not reached that point yet What are the numbers like when you just look at Frank's amazing run?


+1

I'd like to see them compared over their first 9 seasons. But I'm too lazy to go chase that down.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:39 am 
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SHARK wrote:
I wonder if the Ranger might have some company on his 670 The SCORE/White Sox Radio Network postgame shows this season or if Bill Melton might have a little company in the Comcast SportsNet studio after Sox games this season with Big Frank retiring...



I hope this is the case. I enjoyed his work on Comcast Sportsnet last summer during the Cubs/Sox series.

So long to my favorite player from when I was a kid.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:39 am 
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Thomas also never really changed size. He got fatter, but he was always "The BIG Hurt" going back to the early 90s. He also broke down and was hurt more often as he got older, which is what should happen if you aren't on the juice.

Again, take a look at Frank's numbers from '91-'97. THere are only 1 or 2 guys that put up those sorts of numbers for that long, and Pujol's isn't one of them.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:46 am 
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To me, one of the most amazing thing about Thomas was his plate discipline.

His career, including the drop off years, OBP percentage is .419 and through 2000 it was probably .450.

He's 15th all time in OPS - up there with some real giants of the game.

1. Babe Ruth+ 1.1638 L
2. Ted Williams+ 1.1155 L
3. Lou Gehrig+ 1.0798 L
4. Albert Pujols (29) 1.0547 R
5. Barry Bonds 1.0512 L
6. Jimmie Foxx+ 1.0376 R
7. Hank Greenberg+ 1.0169 R
8. Rogers Hornsby+ 1.0103 R
9. Manny Ramirez (37) 1.0019 R
10. Todd Helton (35) .9938 L
11. Mark McGwire .9823 R
12. Mickey Mantle+ .9773 B
13. Joe DiMaggio+ .9771 R
14. Stan Musial+ .9757 L
15. Frank Thomas .9740 R

Everyone with a + is a HOFer. Several that aren't, Bonds/McGwire/Ramirez are known PED users. Helton and Pujols are the other two, but both still active and haven't hit the downside of their careers yet - but Helton is quickly heading that way.


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