I didn't mean to make it sound like he does not think Frank belongs, but El Rangero presented some facts regarding the 2014 HOF class kind of crowded.
Never had more than 2 guys get in as first ballot guys. People are now talking 4 are worthy? Glavine, Maddux, Thomas, Kent.
Then you have Mussina, who is right on the tails of Glavine with 270 wins and just under 3000 K's?
Maddux and Thomas would be my top 2 and only because it's the way to HOF does things, Glavine, Kent and Mussina get in the next year, but this is going to be a factor like it or not.

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""I am now done at the Score."
Mike North, June 24, 2008

Kent will be odd man out....he'll have to wait a year or two....

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What about Randy Johnson?

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Maddux/Thomas
Glavine


Kent




Moose should not get in before Blyleven gets in.

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Where the hell did my post go? It did the same thing in another thread. It times out after I hit submit, but still says eventually that it went through. Anyways, mad dog is in 1st ballot, frank and glavine wait a year and kent waits a while. Now arent bonds and clemens in this same group too? Bonds will get in, idk what they do with clemens.

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I understand the statistics would say otherwise, but not once in his entire career did I feel like I was watching a hall of fame caliber player when watching Jeff Kent play.

You have to throw Randy Johnson in there as well. No way your leaving him out. I would say Madux, Thomas, Johnson, Glavine. Kent might have to just wait til the following year.

If Rongey forgot about Johnson he probably just read the ESPN.com article which did the same. What a class thats for sure.

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He played last year, these guys are a year ahead of him. I though Glavine had some minor league games though.

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Well hell I look like an idiot than. (No comments)

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Has a milestone player (500 HR's, 3,000 hits, 300 wins) ever not made it in on the first ballot, except for steroids or gambling reasons? Maddux, Glavine and Frank will go in together.

The 3,000 hits and 300 wins carry much more weight now than the 500 HR's. I cant see 2 guys from the same team that only won one world series (the braves are where they each did the most) go in together.

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I don't think they do. If you think the player was clean it's still a Hall of Fame worthy accomplishment.

The Braves won 12 consectutive division titles? It would be a shame if a voter held 'only' one World Series title against two of the best pitchers of their generation.

I would let them both in, but the voters are known to be huge dicks and hold grudges forever and follow books full of unwritten rules and not let guys in on the first ballot just because. This is still going to be a crazy year because it should (i think) include clemens and bonds.

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+ (a big) 1

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I don't trust Kent at all regarding performance enhancement. He hit too many hr's during a few of those seasons during the prime of steroids for my liking and has already been identified as a liar in regards to his car wash/motorcycle crash.

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I wasn't even going there, but that's strike two & (a likely) three IMO.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Here's the list of players with over 500 career HR's:

1. Barry Bonds 762 (Steroids)
2. Hank Aaron+ 755
3. Babe Ruth+ 714
4. Willie Mays+ 660
5. Ken Griffey 630 (Generally considered clean)
6. Sammy Sosa 609 (Steroids)
7. Frank Robinson+ 586
8. Mark McGwire 583 (Steroids)
Alex Rodriguez 583 (Steroids)
10. Harmon Killebrew+ 573
11. Rafael Palmeiro 569 (Steroids)
12. Jim Thome 564 (Generally considered clean)
13. Reggie Jackson+ 563
14. Mike Schmidt+ 548
15. Manny Ramirez 546 (Steroids)
16. Mickey Mantle+ 536
17. Jimmie Foxx+ 534
18. Willie McCovey+ 521
Frank Thomas 521 (Generally considered clean)
Ted Williams+ 521
21. Ernie Banks+ 512
Eddie Mathews+ 512
23. Mel Ott+ 511
24. Gary Sheffield 509 (Steroids)
25. Eddie Murray 504

When you remove the juicers the list still looks pretty damn impressive to me.

There is no way to prove Frank wasn't doing it as well. That totally sucks for him because he doesn't have any obvious red flags other than hitting alot of hr's during the juiced era. He is a member of the players union, the same union that knew this shit was going on and chose to let it continue. People can think whatever they want and he can look clean, but it can not be known whether or not he was enhanced. I don't think he did it, but it can not be known for sure.

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Unfortunately there is no way to know for sure but do you think it's just a coincidence that so many 'milestone' players have been exposed as steroid users? Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Clemens, Palmeiro, A-Pud, Manny, Sheffield. Baseball has been on a quiet crusade and it will be very interesting to see if any others are exposed in the coming years.

Its about this time every year that we get a steroid bomb dropped, wonder who it will be this year. They have only leaked 5 or so percent of the players on that infamous list, so I am sure we will get another few names soon.

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That's not really a case against Frank at all. They've elected 3 first-balloters to the Hall before so it's entirely likely that Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas get in. I think Kent gets in eventually, but in that crew, he's the odd man out.



He's not eligible until 2015. He played last year.

Fixed.

Ranger's not the only SCORE guy who thinks Frank Thomas might not get in on the first ballot. John "Rock" Mamola also says no, especially considering who else will be eligible on the first ballot with Thomas. Mamola also doesn't trust anyone from this era of Bud Selig's Major League Baseball, including Thomas, in regards to performance enhancements and steroids.

Thomas and Maddux are should absolutely be 1st ballot HOFers and if they aren't then something has to b. Done about these idiot writers who don't allow guys in the 1st time. Maddux is probably the best pitcher since the 60's and Frank was the dominant hitter for a majority of the 90s and his numbers are comparible to most of the all time greats

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"You can kill the revolutionary, but you can't kill the revolution."

It shouldn't still surprise me that people are this bad at listening, but it does. I most definitely did not say that. I actually said the exact opposite, that I believe he should be a first-ballot guy. Cowley was on the show with me today and brought up a good point, though, that you never know with these writers. It's true. Sometimes, writers like to make themselves the story and vote (or not vote) based on some sort of "principle".

Frank should be there as soon as he's eligible.

Its Saturday night. You should be out and about, not here in the depths with us.

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You ain't lyin'. Definitley as bored as I've been in about a year. Bored enough to come here. Time for a re-evaluation.

You should be at the auto show assisting with the weather updates.

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I dont care how big Frank was in high school or college or as a rookie. There is no way that you can rule out steriods from anyone in that era.

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