And if you want to bash the Sox, go ahead. But to say that Mark Buerhle is not an ace is sheer idiocy. Find me somebody with 100+ wins, at least 200 innings each year, and an ERA thats under 4 in that time frame.

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Mark Buehrle since 2006:

50-44, 1.1 H/IP, around 2.5 K/IP, less than 5.5K/IP, 4.05 ERA.

You just don't see production like that anymore. Certainly I couldn't find 10 major leaguers with numbers like those.

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Fire Phil Emery

I guess I don't buy into the label of "ace" being a lifetime achievement award...he hasn't been an ace since 2005...

It's just a time frame issue. Since I have to spell everything out I will. I could say "find me someone with more hits than Mark Grace in the 90s!" and it wouldn't mean anything. If you start the search in 1998, or 2003, it gives you a whole slew of players.

With the exception of 2005, at no point during his career would people take Mark Buehrle as one of the top ten starters in the MLB. He's not even in the top 20 or 25 right now. Sorry friend.

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Fire Phil Emery

That's exactly what I was thinking at work today. In ten years, some Chicago meatheads will be saying that Buehrle has the club record for consecutive starts and that should somehow support his HOF candidacy. It is nice to have the club record and all, but ultimately it means very little as to his worth as a player... it just means that the White Sox never signed a Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez or Tim Lincecum while Buehrle was around.

Oh and BTW, thanks for the Binny's! Enjoying some Left Hand Milk Stout.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

blah blah blah.

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Look on the bright side. If Mark Buehrle isn't an ace, that means that the Sox didn't squander four years with an "ace" that couldn't crack three wins over .500 in any given season.

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Fire Phil Emery

Thank God the Cubs have ACE TED LILLY:

Since 2006: 59-39, 3.84 ERA, 7.8 K/9IP, 8.2 H/9IP.

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Fire Phil Emery

Ace Scott Baker is 10 games over .500 since 2007 with a lower ERA, more strikeouts per nine innings, a better strikeout to walk ratio, and fewer hits per nine innings.

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Fire Phil Emery

Last 3 years:

Buehrle- 3.75 ERA

Baker- 4.03 ERA

The line between ACE and NOT ACE is vanishingly small, no? And once you add Mark Buehrle's 2006, which was in the prime of his career, things look even closer (although Baker's 2006-at age 23--wasn't very good).

Also, nice edit. You thought you were making a really good point, and then you realized you fucked up, and now you pretty much made my point. That sucks, doesn't it?

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Fire Phil Emery

I just wanted to correct your mistake.

I notice you didn't mention starts and innings pitched? Nothing like cherry picking stats to try to make a point.

No, you put that his ERA was 4.60 or thereabouts. Then you realized you fucked up, and when you readjusted it, it turned out that the ERA numbers were really close. Oops.

And I "cherry-picked" the stats like ERA, W/L, hits/IP, K/9IP and K/BB. Buehrle has been mediocre for more starts. That is tremendous. ACE.

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Fire Phil Emery

Oops.

I was comparing to his 2006 numbers quoted above. Referencing his 2006 numbers at age 23 seems unfair. But OK, Scott Baker gave up one more run for every 36 innings pitched over that stretch. Those seven runs a year are what separates ACE from NOT ACE.

And that makes Ted Lilly TRIPLE ACE.

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Fire Phil Emery

Ted Lilly is definitely the ace of the cubs. It's too bad he didn't get to start against the Dodgers in the playoffs. That would have been 'perfect'.

No, it appears you just cherry picked to find a young pitcher who's had exactly one very good year that has dramatically skewed his career(to date) numbers. And then you went for (the bad fact that proves "any" rule) ol' reliable Ted. Ted, he of the magically above average 3 yr. NL(inferior league ) career after a thoroughly mediocre AL career.

...but I'm not going to debate "Buerhle the Ace" with you, I don't think he is one either.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

MARK BUEHRLE IS AWESOME BECAUSE CUBS CHOKE


Ted Lilly was the first pitcher I thought of, but I knew people would complain because you simply can't compare NL pitchers to AL pitchers because it violates a law or something. So I looked at a team from the AL Central to be fair. First I looked at the Royals, but picking Grienke would unquestionably be unfair because he's better than Buehrle at this point. Then I looked at the Twins. I'm sure if I dedicated an hour to it I could provide a list.

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Fire Phil Emery

....so says he with the Cheshire Cat-like grin as he typed it.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I don't even dislike the Sox. I really don't. But for as long as I've been reading this board, every year it's the same delusions of grandeur mixed with crippling inferiority complexes. "Why doesn't the biased media love us? Why don't they see that we have the Cy Young winner, the Rookie of the Year, and the MVP? Why do people predict we'll do poorly when we are usually mediocre? This is a 95 win team. We have a top five management team. We'd win every division in the NL. Why does ESPN hate us? Why are the umps against us? We have the best food in the world."

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Fire Phil Emery

There'd be more, but the "this year is OUR year", "attendance champ-eens" and "we play in a shrine" claims are taken. Quite frankly, but for the food discussion, the fans of the team that plays in a Federal League stadium oddly seem to wail the same way.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Cubs fans are manic separately. Everyone in the Cubs forum was depressed before last year even started. All those Sox things will show up in the same thread.

As I age, I find that I care about baseball less and less because of the lack of a salary cap, so I'm really not invested in these little feuds. A Cubs World Series would mean a lot less to me than it would have meant ten or even five years. I was neither happy nor upset the Sox won... it was like watching the Baltimore Orioles win a WS. I just find the mentality fascinating.

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Fire Phil Emery

I felt the same way from '94 through '04. At least I claimed I did.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Sure, Peavy went 3-0 at the end of last season, his first starts against AL teams as a member of an AL team. However, those starts were against KC and a Detroit team that, at that point in the season, didn't seem to be able to hit water falling out of a boat on which a wet-shirt contest was being conducted by Aquaman in a rain storm.

Peavy hasn't broken 200 innings for a season in a few seasons now. It would be great if he could crest 200 in 2010.

And Buehrle hasn't fallen below 200 innings for a season...ever?

If Peavy thinks the AL is gonna be all KC and late season 2009 Detroit lineups...yow.

When October rolls around, we'll be able to compare Buehrle and Peavy side by side after Peavy's first full season in the AL (well, 150 innings or so). Til then, Peavy's a guest in Mark Buehrle's house.

When October rolls around, we'll be able to compare Buehrle and Peavy side by side after Peavy's first full season in the AL (well, 150 innings or so). Til then, Peavy's a guest in Mark Buehrle's house.



You need one game--I'll take Peavy--Love Buehrle but Peavy strike's fear into hitters.

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2009 CSFMB Fantasy Basketball Champion-
2009 CSFMB Pro Football Pick'em Champion-
2011 NAS Replacement League Football-

I believe your the same one that said Buehrle> Peavy. Keep making statements like that and ALL your credibility will go to shit.

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Since 2003 Zambrano averages more wins, better ERA, better Whip.

Buehrle wins IP/yr 221 to 204 which makes him, an ace.

Zambrano also wins in ejections, time spent on the DL, and suspensions.

Irishboy, why don't you cherry pick a few stats since 2001? Like wins, ERA, and IP for example. Cherry pick those from '01-'09 and then come back and state your case.

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Frank, not to be a dick but you do this a lot.

The whole Thomas thing: This many Hr BB RBI this many years in a row.
These extremely specific stats are not good ways of judging players. Just like the Scott Baker argument isnt.

Since 2001? So what if a pitcher came up in 2003 and has been consistently better? Is Buehrle better because he was here 2 years earlier?


Buerhle is a good very durable pitcher. Nothing wrong with that.