I listened today for a little while and to my surprise, I was informed by the "Great One" (aka - Mc-Kneel) that a majority of Cubs fans still have "vitriolic hatred" toward Dusty Baker. Really? Am I missing something? I know the fan base did have a lot of "hatred" with him toward the end of his tenure here...and that carried over for a year or so....but in recent years I don't see the "vitriolic hatred" that DMac is accusing the fanbase of having. Maybe I am missing something.

he also had a bunch of other shit to say about the fans not hating Kerry wood but we hate dusty, ...The Sox fans don't act way...oh yes the great & wonderful Sox fans are sooooo fucking classy.

Meatpants was no help to the cause. With him trying to be the voice of reason for Cubs fans...just made the whole thing worse.

Anyway...I guess the point I am trying to make is, it seemed to me that danny boy was trying to create something that just isn't there in order to spin his dials a little higher. I thought he was bettter than that.

Is there still a great deal of hate for Dusty Baker??

I took his advice and PTFB.

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

I dislike Dusty Baker. But it's not something I think about unless we are playing the Reds. I think the problem with some Cubs fans is the connection they make whether rightly or wrongly to what could have been if Dusty 'didn't destroy Kerry and Mark's arms'

Most Cubs fans will always equate the three of them together and Dusty being the reason their careers went south. I don't think there's ill feelings towards Kerry since he still lives in Chicago and more or less did what was asked of him by Dusty.

That said, I'd bet the majority of fans are not excited about this series as a chance to beat up on Dusty

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Team Cutler.

I hate Dusty....Prior....Bartman....Alex Gonzalez and even Dave Veres. For some reason I don't hate Alou all that much. I don't have a rational argument for all of this its just my inner meatball reaching out.

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I don't get it, at least I don't personally care more about beating up on Dusty's team any more than I want to see the Cubs beat Tony LaRussa's teams, or any other division rival - I hate any opponent in our division. I don't think that Baker was a particularly good manager for us, especially as far as the pitching staff was concerned, but he's not our problem anymore. That's like how Brian Hanley was trying to say on their show this morning that Cubs fans are rooting for Bradley's failure in Seattle I thought that he was a bad teammate, and wasn't even remotely worth the money he was paid (Hendry's fault, not Milton's), but he also is no longer our problem. The same goes with Bears fans and Rex Grossman - who gives a shit?

Mackey really knows the pulse of his audience. If you don't agree, PTFB

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I honestly can't speak for anyone but myself and I do acknowledge that its petty but I for one am openly rooting for Bradley to fail. I understand that he isn't our problem but part of being a sports fan is having players that you like and root for and those you dont and want to see fail miserably. Bradley's performance and behavior during his time on the North Side has made me wish nothing but bad things upon him in his future endeavors. Either that or I am just racist.

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Oh, I do. That guy never saw a called strike he couldn't bitch about. He always got PISSED (pun intended) at called third strikes.

Dusty doesn't bother me. He is just another manager of another organization. Do you think the giants fans get all hot and bothered every time the little- growing to medium- red machine comes to town?

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

I guess that I shouldn't have said that I don't get it, rather than saying that I don't understand why the media tries to say that everyone in the fandom loves to hate certain players/coaches/etc. It just seems like a waste of energy to me, personally. I understand that it helps to fuel the fire if one feels that he contributed directly to the Cubs failure (and I do believe that, trust me), but I think of him as a buffoon, just thankfully that he is no longer our buffoon. Bradley's an asshole, his parents were probably assholes, but he's not even in our league anymore. He's gonna suck because he's a shitty player, I don't have to root for the inevitable. He's gonna be an asshole 'til he gets his head screwed on straight and stops saying nonsensical, inflammatory things. Grossman also will suck and will also likely continue to be an asshole, as well...

What does it matter how Giants fans feel about having him come to town. I bet there are some fans there who still take some pleasure in watching Dusty's team lose because he helped cost them a WS title as well. I am not trying to talk anyone into rooting against Dusty but I did not realize there was a list of people that we weren't supposed to root against. If you do not like a player or organization it is acceptiable to take some enjoyment out of their struggles is it not? Otherwise Frank wouldn't be in the Cubs section as much as he is.

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I definately respect your opinion and its probably a healthier outlook on life to not pay attention to the ass hats once they leave town but some of us still hold a grudge and get a perverse sense of enjoyment watching these clowns fail. I have a buddy who is a die hard Mets fan who loved the Steve Phillips scandal. Is this sort of behavior right? Probably not but it is ingrained into my sports psyche.

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It is a 'Score thing' to take an opinion that some may have and say that most fans of X club feel that way. B&B excel at it now Mac is getting into it. It gets callers and kills the time until real stuff to talk about happens. If Cub fans hated and rooted against every manager and player that failed here, we would be miserable pricks that hated everything and everybody, rooting more against others than for our own team. You know, White Sox fans.

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Exactly And I don't think that Phil is wrong in taking that view - it may make sports more interesting or enjoyable if someone has an emotional involvement in them. I have great disdain for the opponent of any team going up against my own, I hope we absolutely demoralize 'em and send 'em home cryin' to their mommas. I hope that they constantly fail even when they're not going head to head with my teams so that they're not in contention, but if a player or team doesn't directly me affect me and my own, to hell with it...

Edit: except Pierzynski, that fuc*stain

I'm just saying I root against the reds just as much as I root against the pirates or astros. Dusty being there doesn't give me any extra hate just the same regular amount there has always been for the reds.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

I'm not a Cubs fan, but I agree that Dusty Baker is loathed by most Cubs fans (that I know at least) because:

A) He used his son as a human shield after bad games
B) He overrused Wood and Prior for his own gain (not worrying about their futures)
C) Was an all around d-bag
D) Mismanaged the 2003 NLCS
E) Did an awful job in 2004
F) Instead of focusing on managing, worried what the media and broadcasting team was saying
G) Allowed the inmates to run the asylum (aka he was a 'players coach')
H) Was at the helm with Bonds's juicing and the with Sosa's
I) Used the race card


I'll disagree wholeheartedly with Mac on Dave Wannstedt. McCaskey gave that guy EVERYTHING he wanted. Wanny came in preaching speed on defense - then goes out and gets an aging Vinson Smith and Joe Cain - not my idea of 'speedy linebackers'. Wanny wanted to be 'friends' with everybody. The players, the media, etc. And unlike Lovie Smith, he had a good relationship with Mac, and Mac speaks glowingly about Wanny on an ongoing basis. Wanny was also quick to criticize the Bears management and scouting when he landed in Miami as Jimmy Johnson's cabana boy. ...and that's not even bringing Bryan with a y Harlan into the conversation. Wanny was fired after back to back 4-12 seasons. He got what he had coming to him.

And don't even get me going on his mismanagement of Chris Gardocki and Trace Armstrong. The Bears ended up with Todd Sauerbrun (for the second round pick from the Armstrong trade) and an unwarranted promotion for John Theiry.

He also never took Miami any further than Jimmy Johnson did. He'll be (ah) fine in Pittsburgh... That's a fine job for Dave.

So Mac should really stop humiliating Chicago football fans that do NOT suffer from selective memory. Never confuse off-field friendliness with on-field results there champ.

That felt good to type btw.

I'm glad Mac doesn't read he message board anymore.

I know a lot of guys who are still pissed off about Herman Franks.

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It wouldn't upset me if I read in the news that Baker drove off a steep cliff to his demise ... wait, I should clarify - it would be a shame if Bonds, LaRussa, Joe Morgan, the Masters asswipe, Bradley (Milton, not Shawn) or that sort of lot wasn't with him.

But I don't actively hope and wait for it.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I still don't understand this. Was the complaint that since his little boy was sitting there the media couldn't ask him tough questions? What did that have to do with anything? How did that prevent anyone from asking Dusty why this or that was or was not done?

I don't feel the need to go to other teams' web sites and warn them about the inability of Dusty, so no, I think Mac is manufacturing.

Do any of you feel the need to warn people off of Jim LeFevre(sp)?

I get more upset with Dusty's attitudes about steroids than anything else.

But, shoe on the other foot: say Dusty was the Sox's coach, got that close and managed to blow it. How would Sox Nation view Dusty, a few years later?

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Middle Aged Crazy, like Uncle Terry

Listen up.. when the kid wasn't there they wouldn't ask the tough questions. When he was there, he was viewed as a 'cute distraction playing with his matchbox cars'.

We can blame J.T. Snow for that btw. Should have let Dusty learn a lesson back in '02. Darren wouldn't have enjoyed the lesson too much though.

That is stupid, not sure why anyone would want that to happen.

There are a lot of reasons to criticize Dusty, but I ain't going to criticize him for having his kid around.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Hopefully the kid got a good allowance for shielding Daddy

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Middle Aged Crazy, like Uncle Terry

Matter of fact, Dusty Baker was so fuckin stupid and irresponsible back then, MLB made a rule to prevent future stupid parenting:

The "Darren Baker Rule," an age requirement of 14 for bat boys, has been implemented by Major League Baseball. The rule is nicknamed after Darren Baker, son of Dusty Baker, who was nearly run over at home plate when he attempted to retrieve a bat during the 7th inning of Game 5 of the 2002 World Series between Baker's San Francisco Giants and the Anaheim Angels. Baseball already has a directive limiting teams to two bat boys, a rule the Giants violated during the post-season.


This is not the reason I loathe Dusty Baker btw... just one of the reasons I've heard others think he's an idiot. I thought he was a great Cubs Manager - the best part is when they hired him, they overpaid for his services. There were no other job openings, and the IRS was after him. In true Jim Hendry fashion, he overpaid.

I can still hear Brickhouse say...Here comes Herman when Franks would come out of the dugout to argue a call or make a pitching change. Herman had a big ol' beer belly and would waddle out on the field.

HEY-HEY

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

It sounds like it didn't make a difference if his son was there or not. So in what way was Dusty using him as a human shield?

It seems like nonsense manufactured by the media.

At least Ozzie knows when enough is enough when it comes to his son being a pain in the ass distraction.

I was predisposed to disliking Baker before he was hired by the Cubs. I spent the late 90s living in the Bay area. I watched him abuse bullpens and mismanage in San Francisco for years. Some of those Giants teams should have been much better than they were. I also associated Baker with their underachievment. I left after the summer of 2001. I remember thinking that I was happy to be away from the day to day nonsense of Dusty..

Only to find him hired by the Cubs the next year. Great. His inability to manage a bullpen. His inability to accept criticism. His inability to be honest about his players with respect to PEDs. He was bringing all of that with him to the team I actually followed. I wanted him fired before he managed a single game. Years of watching him "manage" the Giants led me there.

Starting at SS today-Neifi Perez!!!!!!

spelling wrong