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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

You keep posting this bullshit, but nobody thought the Twins "wouldn't be able to play outside". This is a good Minnesota team. But what they don't have is an 81 game advantage playing in a peculiar indoor stadium. And you're going to see that the lopsided home-road records they've had in the past are no longer the case.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Just maybe the METRODUMP advantage was a bit overrated and the White Sox are responsible for their own shit product?
Just a thought.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

The Twins ridiculous home advantage in that goofy place really has nothing to do with the White Sox. From '01-'09 the Twins were 139 games over .500 in that place and 22 games under away from it. That's a little more than a normal home field advantage to say the least. And it should be obvious they're not going to have that kind of an edge playing in a normal outdoor ballpark. That doesn't mean they still can't kick the shit out of a Sox team that Guillen purposely built to lack guys who can get on base.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I always thought this was such a lame excuse. The Twins always put out a fundamentally solid team that did not make errors and took advantage of speed on the carpet. That's what you are suppossed to do?

Do the Twins fans bitch about the Sox moving in the fences 10 feet and then getting a HR hitting team?

Fucking Red Sox getting LH power in Ortiz to hit HR's to short RF?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Yes they did, people have posted about it around here many times.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Tailoring a team to your park is a whole lot different than the park itself being the built-in advantage. Forget about stuff like switching the air conditioners depending on who was up. The Metrodome itself was an advantage for those who played there 81 games a year and it's equalled only by that other oddity in Tampa. Boston could have nine Babe Ruths in their lineup at Fenway and they're not going to go 139 over at home and 22 under on the road. Those numbers have nothing to do with the players and everything to do with the place. Bad Minnesota teams played well in the Metrodome and good ones played well there too.



I think you're misunderstanding what they meant. The advantage that caused a team to be 139 games over .500 at home while going 22 games under on the road is gone. The fact that a particular Twins team might be good enough to win 50 games in the new outdoor park isn't evidence to the contrary. And I can guarantee a team that does that will not be under .500 away.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

And I think you are making all of these assumptions without having read any of the posts around here for the last couple of years. Twist it however you want, but there were a group of Sox fans that thought the Twins would fall apart since they have to play outside all the time away from the Baggie.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Indoor, outdoors, under water, I think its pretty clear that regardless of venue the Twins are a lot better than the Sox.

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Joe Orr hasn't been here long enough.

Anyway, Joe Cowley has a great article in the Sun Times today discussing the plight of the beloved White Sox.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

In that same period, the Sox are 106 games over .500 at home and 49 games under on the road. The split is almost exactly the same for both teams.

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Fire Phil Emery

In 2005, the Sox won (I think) 51 games on the road. Thats what you need to do to win 99 games.

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Yes, and that was the only season they went over .500 on the road in the last nine years. They went under .500 only once at home during that time, five games under in 2007.

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Fire Phil Emery

They also hit 200 HRs and played solid defense.

Simple game!

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Actually, it's 112 and 47. I wasn't suggesting the Sox lacked a home field advantage. Most teams have one. The point is it isn't as exaggerated as the Twins' and the Rays'.

And it isn't necessary for me to have been prowling this message board day and night for years to understand the conversation. ASFB cited Hawk and Ozzie in the original post. I've heard the same things from Sox fans too. But I don't think the belief- whether it's coming from a fan in a bar, the manager of the Sox, one of their announcers, or here in these threads- is that a good Twins team wouldn't be able to play without the Metrodome. It's that in the long haul, they've lost the edge of a freakish stadium.

As Frank said, this Twins team is better than the Sox whether they're playing in the Astrodome or the Baker Bowl or on an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf. A lot of Sox fans might not have believed that before the season began, but that's a different conversation.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Damn, I wish these idiots would figure out a player development system LIKE THE TWINS......

I am sure the off season acquisitions of Jones, Teahen and Pierre sold about 3 whole Ozzie Plans.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

But you're contradicting yourself. The Sox "normal" home field advantage led (by your numbers) to a difference of 159 games over that stretch (112 + 47, or technically 112 - -47). The Twins "freakish" home advantage led by your numbers to a 161 game difference (139 + 22). That's a difference of two games over a nine year stretch, or a little less than a quarter of a game a season. I'd imagine that the numbers look quite similar for almost every team in MLB. Colorado might be the only exception.

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Fire Phil Emery

I can't argue with the numbers. Maybe the Twins Metrodome advantage wasn't as great as it seemed. I'm not going to be a hammerhead about it. But I would say that perhaps a lot of those Twins teams maybe weren't as good as they played and that they rode their park advantage to success.

Regardless, my larger point was that when Hawk or Ozzie or even the fans were celebrating the death of the Metrodome, I don't think the thought was that the Twins would "collapse away from the baggie". This is a team featuring an MVP and a batting champion and some solid, if unspectacular, pitching. It's certainly not unreasonable to think that maybe four or five games go the other way since the edge of playing the oddities of that stadium are gone and that might be the difference in the division. I've heard Hawk say he expected the race to be a dogfight with the Twins. I don't think he'd say such a thing if he thought they would "collapse away from the baggie".

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

A caller near the end of Ranger's "Comcast Feedback Zone Postgame" on 670 The SCORE & the TOYOTA Chicago White Sox Radio Network last night mentioned something that the Sox have really had trouble doing for many, many years. The Sox have done a lousy job of developing their own players through their farm system, something the Minnesota Twins have done extremely well, even before their move outside to Target Field this year.

This year's Twinkies squad is talented enough that the change of home venue will not have much impact. They have spent some money (in addition to their usual excellent player development) and have a team that can play anywhere.

In previous years, the Twins were forced to tailor their roster to try to gain as much home field advantage as possible. Some of those teams were awfully slappy. I suspect that they would not have fared as well at Target Field as the current incarnation of the team.

This is one reason I think Reinsdorf is such an ass.
He has owned the Sox for close to 30 years....He has organizations to model the Sox after....he would rather have a three ring circus with a group of baseball lifers kissing his ass.....
The Sox don't go cheap on Payroll....they WASTE a lot of money on washed up clowns....I guess Reinsdorf would rather surround himself with drama and nonsense than run a competent organization.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

How would you do it, Bob?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Joe, this is way too easy.......Just like the Twins or Marlins......When I look at a Sox media guide and see how they have just wasted so many 1st round draft selections, it makes me ill.

Hell, this team can't find a fifth starter of middle relievers in their organization for a decade...money wasted on Linebrink and Dotel......reclamation projects like Freddie wind up as the 5th starter..

Just build a competent player development organization.....stop drafting quarterbacks like Borchard and Fields....

Stop depending on the next raft to leave Cuba for player talent.

The Sox have been inept at player development since Larry Himes left.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Im a little dissapointed in Joe Orr Rod.

JORR, You were throwing those twins splits around like you knew them to be abnormal.

You even said 9 Babe Ruths couldnt get that ridiculous split.

Cmon Joe. Your slightly better than that

Well, I actually read a column that pointed out that split as an oddity. I guess that should teach me not to believe everything I read on the internets.

As for ASFB's recipe, it's all well and good, but I don't think the Sox have been particularly poor at drafting and player development. It wasn't that long ago that they had a string of picks that included McDowell, Fernandez, Ventura, and Frank. Right now they've got two homegrown guys among their starters (Buehrle, Beckham) and a bunch of other guys that they acquired before they had any real big league success (Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Konerko, Quentin).

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

1. The first group are Larry Himes draftees...a generation ago.

Just look at the wasted #1 draft picks...this organization can do one hell of a lot better than the Brian Andersons, Josh Fieldses and Lance Broadways of the world.

To defend their recent player development on any level is to defend their mediocrity.

The positive is that Kenny Williams quickly determined the Stiffs were Stiffs and traded them for some guys that can actually play.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

The Twins won in the dome with teams made up of guys like Hrbek, Pucket and Gaetti. Then they won with teams built on lock down middle/closer relief and defense. Now they are back to being big hitters but have now combined the hitting with strong relief.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Okay, Bob, how many homegrown starters would a team that was great at player development have?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don