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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:54 am 
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Bagels wrote:
hawks need to come back here

not looking good

this cannot get tied up 2-2

:D HI BAGELS!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:55 am 
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Hawks are in dire straights.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:04 am 
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:lol:

true....this series has really taken the wind out of my sails and also negated some of the giddiness of the Mavs-Spurs series

they will win but it should never gotten to this point. Orlando is clearly licking their chops, they might sweep the next round too


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:10 am 
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the disappointment for me has been the defense...offensively Joe Johnson, Bibby, Crawford & Smith had good games...Horford and Marvin Williams didn't fare that well but Horford was in foul trouble most of the game

but they only had 2 blocks in the game and allowed the Bucks to shoot 55%


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:37 am 
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Oh, I agree that the Hawks will win, I just never expected the Bucks to even win these 2 games. They are way out-manned.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:40 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Oh, I agree that the Hawks will win, I just never expected the Bucks to even win these 2 games. They are way out-manned.


yes, but even if the Hawks win the series it rings kind of hollow to me. If they had swept or even won 3-1, I would have had a minor amount of confidence going into the Magic series. Now you have a possibility of a 7 game series while the Magic swept and are at home resting. And really they should have swept- you're right the Bucks are outmanned without Bogut. but Jennings is definitely stepping up. He should be destroying Bibby


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:48 am 
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Nas wrote:
Bucks will win because they have the better coach.



:lol: :lol:



it's funny because it's true


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:10 am 
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Jennings has been a fun watch this year, from a lot of highs to a lot of lows. But, other than Game 2 he has been really good, and as a Bucks fan you have to look forward to the years ahead. Yes, we do have the far better coach. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Looking at the Bucks roster I just cannot believe they are even in the playoffs, yet alone tied with the Hawks. It has to be Skiles.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Jennings is now my third-favorite player remaining in the playoffs (behind Wade & Durant).

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:39 pm 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Jennings is now my third-favorite player remaining in the playoffs (behind Wade & Durant).


Dirk Diggler isn't even in your top 3? he still is technically in the playoffs


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:43 pm 
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My guy is still:

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:49 pm 
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i sitting here praying to god that you're joking. please tell me you're joking
i think i'm pretty good with telling when you're joking or not but i'm not sure here and it's making me terribly uneasy


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
i sitting here praying to god that you're joking. please tell me you're joking
i think i'm pretty good with telling when you're joking or not but i'm not sure here and it's making me terribly uneasy

:lol: :lol:

Not a birdman fan?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:56 pm 
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this is the only "Birdman" I recognize:

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:58 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Jennings is now my third-favorite player remaining in the playoffs (behind Wade & Durant).


Dirk Diggler isn't even in your top 3? he still is technically in the playoffs


1). Wade
2). Durant
3). Jennings
4). Lebrawn
5). Dirk

Dirk was #3 after Game 1 of the Spurs series. He's fallen a couple of pegs since then.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
:lol:

true....this series has really taken the wind out of my sails and also negated some of the giddiness of the Mavs-Spurs series

they will win but it should never gotten to this point. Orlando is clearly licking their chops, they might sweep the next round too


There's no way Orlando sweeps them. If anything, they have proven to be a great home team in the playoffs. I know they got swept last year, but Orlando has struggled too with a much worse team than Atlanta has. I cant see the Bucks beating Atlanta on their home floor in this series. I agree with your overall discontent though. It seems like the East 2nd round will be a little less interesting.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:29 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Jennings is now my third-favorite player remaining in the playoffs (behind Wade & Durant).


Dirk Diggler isn't even in your top 3? he still is technically in the playoffs


:lol:

Seriously... no love for the Birdman? He's one of my favorite players in the league also.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:32 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Bagels wrote:
:lol:

true....this series has really taken the wind out of my sails and also negated some of the giddiness of the Mavs-Spurs series

they will win but it should never gotten to this point. Orlando is clearly licking their chops, they might sweep the next round too


There's no way Orlando sweeps them. If anything, they have proven to be a great home team in the playoffs. I know they got swept last year, but Orlando has struggled too with a much worse team than Atlanta has. I cant see the Bucks beating Atlanta on their home floor in this series. I agree with your overall discontent though. It seems like the East 2nd round will be a little less interesting.


did i miss something? orlando swept charlotte, just as atlanta should have swept the bucks

and yeah the Hawks are great at home but they only won once against Orlando and it was a struggle...the other games they weren't even close.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:36 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Bagels wrote:
:lol:

true....this series has really taken the wind out of my sails and also negated some of the giddiness of the Mavs-Spurs series

they will win but it should never gotten to this point. Orlando is clearly licking their chops, they might sweep the next round too


There's no way Orlando sweeps them. If anything, they have proven to be a great home team in the playoffs. I know they got swept last year, but Orlando has struggled too with a much worse team than Atlanta has. I cant see the Bucks beating Atlanta on their home floor in this series. I agree with your overall discontent though. It seems like the East 2nd round will be a little less interesting.


did i miss something? orlando swept charlotte, just as atlanta should have swept the bucks

and yeah the Hawks are great at home but they only won once against Orlando and it was a struggle...the other games they weren't even close.


I meant is, not has. Meaning Atlanta is much better than Charlotte. There's really no reason to think the Hawks are going to lose this series to the Bucks. As for the regular season games against Orlando... Spurs were 1-3 against the Mavs this season. I cant see Atlanta losing back to back home games to the Magic.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:21 pm 
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So is this Wade's last game with the Heat?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:23 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
So is this Wade's last game with the Heat?


I felt really bad for him, actually....he was on an island out there. I have to think it is

and your Mavs are looking good so far!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Yeah so far so good.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:46 pm 
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Hope remains alive.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:27 pm 
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As the Denver Nuggets prepare to tip off Game 5 Wednesday in their playoff series against the Utah Jazz, one of the big questions that must be asked regarding the Nuggets is this: What happened to their formerly reliable free-throw advantage?

Denver led the league in free-throw attempts and the Jazz fouled more than any other team in the NBA this season, so we might have expected a Nuggets parade to the line. Yet through four games it's Utah that enjoys a plus-13 advantage in free-throw attempts.

What gives? Well, there appears to be more to the story, one that's been developing ever since interim coach Adrian Dantley replaced coach George Karl on the sidelines. As our Chris Broussard pointed out earlier in the week, the Nuggets are getting fewer foul calls under their interim coach than they did under Karl. Denver went to the line 31.6 times per game under Karl but just 27.2 in the 19 regular-season games the Nuggets played under Dantley. In those games, Denver's plus-315 free-throw edge under Karl transformed into a minus-14 deficit under Dantley.

In 61 games with Karl on the sideline this season, Denver averaged .392 free throw attempts per field goal attempt. That figure not only led the league by a wide margin but was also one of the best figures in recent NBA history.

With Dantley, that figure dropped all the way to .323, which was just slightly above the league average and the ninth-best figure in the league. (Note: To compare like pieces of fruit here, all Dantley data is regular-season only.)

We're talking about a whopping 17.6 percent difference in free throw attempts per field goal attempt, and we're talking about a large-enough sample size -- 19 games, or nearly one-quarter of a season -- that it can't be dismissed as a short-term fluke.

My search for obvious explanations turned up little. Denver played eight times at home and 11 on the road, but it also played several weak defensive teams under Dantley -- including each of the bottom four in defensive efficiency.

Injuries was my next thought, as it might mean that players less likely to draw fouls were on the floor. But the only regular to miss significant time, forward KDdidit Martin, doesn't draw fouls at a high rate. In fact, he gets to the line dramatically less often than his most frequent replacement, Chris Andersen, and roughly as frequently as the two other players (Joey Graham and Johan Petro) who filled in for him. If anything, Martin's absence should have helped on that front.

One might think that the Nuggets attempted different shots, and that would account for the free throw disparity, but they really didn't. Denver attempted 1.9 percent fewer shots in the basket area under Dantley than under Karl. It's hard to imagine how that explains 17.7 percent fewer free throw attempts per field goal attempt.

Finally, you might think, maybe it's just one of those things -- an unusually huge random variation, but a random one nonetheless. Still, every other metric supports the hypothesis that Dantley is the Rodney Dangerfield of coaches.

As for opponents' free throw attempts? No respect. While Dantley coached, the Nuggets' opposition took 5.5 percent more free throw attempts per field goal attempt than it did while Karl coached. In the games Karl coached, the Nuggets attempted 315 more foul shots than opponents and were well-known for this advantage; under Dantley, they attempted 14 fewer than their opponents.

Opponents' foul calls? No respect. While Dantley ran the Nuggets, their opponents received 3.9 percent fewer fouls per possession than they did while the Nuggets were under Karl. That had a double-whammy effect, as it meant less opponent foul trouble -- a key weapon in Denver's arsenal -- and fewer forays for Denver into the bonus.

Foul calls? No respect. Denver got called for 1.7 percent more fouls under Dantley on a per-possession basis, which isn't a huge increase but is a rise. And as with the opponents' fouls above, it had knock-on effects with foul trouble and the bonus.

In other words, it's not just one piece of data that supports the hypothesis; it's every piece. Everything you expected to happen if Dantley wasn't getting a fair whistle has happened.

At this point, somebody from the league might point out that the Nuggets have averaged a very healthy .441 free throw attempts per field goal attempt in their series against Utah, then say that we're all overreacting or that the postseason doesn't support the conclusions above.

Which would make sense, except for two things:

First, Denver's opponent, Utah, is the capital of Hackerville. Jazz opponents averaged a league-leading .353 free throw attempts per field goal attempt during the regular season, or about 17.7 percent more than the league average. (There's that number again.) Given those parameters, the jump in Denver's rate over such a small sample seems unremarkable.

And second, have you seen Utah's free throw attempts? I think the Jazz just went to the line again while I was typing that last sentence. Utah has taken 152 in just four games for an ungodly .501 free throw attempts per field goal attempt. To put that number into perspective, only 20 players in the entire league had a rate so high this season, and none of them played for Utah.

It's unthinkable for an entire team to get to the stripe at such a prodigious rate for a series; even in a short series, it's a dramatic deviation from the norm. Utah and Denver both were above the league norm in earning and allowing free throws, respectively, but they weren't nearly as divergent from the averages as they were at the other side of the court. In other words, we'd have expected Utah's free throw rate to stay close to normal.

I must point out that this data does not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the refs have been treating Dantley and the Nuggets unfairly. We could come up with other hypothetical explanations for the data noted above. And since it's likely that this information will reach the refs before Game 5, we might expect this data to become more normal in future games.


Regardless, we have enough evidence now -- from 82 regular-season games and four playoff games -- to started asking pointed questions.

NBA referees are human, and in general that's a really good thing. Being human allows them to make subtle judgments about intent and impact, recognize potentially explosive on-court situations, and maintain law and order in countless other ways.

The disadvantage, however, is that it renders them vulnerable to all our little human biases and tendencies. One prominent one has already received notice thanks to a research paper by economists by Justin Wolfers and Joe Price, that league officials tend to show a same-race bias. (More on that study can be found here.)

It's possible there's an "interim-coach phenomenon" as well, especially if it's an interim coach who never argues calls.

Given the eye-popping differentials in foul calls and free-throw attempts, we have to ask if human nature has made some officials respond different to Dantley than to a more intimidating, permanent coach like Sloan. Are the refs more likely to call, say, three charging fouls in a half on a team's superstar, or call a delay-of-game violation for a technical foul with three minutes left in a close playoff game, or make a dramatic zip-your-lips gesture to the bench as if lecturing a room full of third-graders if the person reacting to that call is basically the substitute teacher?


They're the best officials in the world. But they're only human, after all.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
the disappointment for me has been the defense...offensively Joe Johnson, Bibby, Crawford & Smith had good games...Horford and Marvin Williams didn't fare that well but Horford was in foul trouble most of the game

but they only had 2 blocks in the game and allowed the Bucks to shoot 55%


I saw some highlights of CARLOS DELFINO??!! dunking on 3 guys? Honestly, I did not know Delfino was even in the League... :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:49 pm 
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I am guessing the Hawks/Bucks game will look a lot like the Lakers and Thunder game from last night.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:04 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I am guessing the Hawks/Bucks game will look a lot like the Lakers and Thunder game from last night.

No sir. Look at my avatar and then edit your post accordingly.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:44 pm 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I am guessing the Hawks/Bucks game will look a lot like the Lakers and Thunder game from last night.

No sir. Look at my avatar and then edit your post accordingly.


OKC is right so far...Hawks look terrible.

also I think Kevin McHale might be the worst announcer ever, which is appropriate


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
also I think Kevin McHale might be the worst announcer ever, which is appropriate

Yeah, he's pretty bad. However, no matter how bad McHale is, he'll never be as bad an announcer as Isiah was.

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