Just as an analogy JBills, I work in manufacturing and specifically quality. I guess when my customers call to complain about a particular part, I should tell them that 95% of our parts are good and that they shouldn't be so short-sighted

Might as well be honest, and not a corporate tool.

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Im only gonna give you dumbass answers when you bring the dumbass analogies into a debate with me.

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Was what I said really that hard to understand?

You claimed that players don't get booed for poor play but for poor effort. Therefore, every player who gets booed is simply giving subpar effort.

Rex Grossman must have really not tried out there as he got booed constantly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

GO FUCK YOURSELF

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Brick, Brick, Brick. When a fan feels like they arent getting what they paid for then they can boo all they want. Doesnt matter if it's quitting or crapping the bed against a soft Orlando team. It's all relative.

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This is my signature...

Glad we've established that you see no difference between poor play and lack of effort

I agree 100%.

However, you cited the fans booing as irrefutable evidence that Joe Johnson quit. Now you just said that fans may not boo for quitting but simply for bad play.

ure move.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Start Orton!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What was the outcome of each series? Like Ive said before quitting for 5 minutes isnt as damning of an offense to me. Ive seen the 2 best players int he league quit in the playoffs. I bet you could say the same thing about a lot of top 20 guys in the league who've been banged up on a bad team at the end of the year, or are facing a 3-1, 3-0 deficit in a series. Im sure none of them found out the week of the playoff series that Delonte West was banging their Mom either.

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At some point in that 12.7 ppg effort in the Orlando Series Joe Johnson quit. Sure. I have no problem saying that. Since he's a fringe star, and none of that series' games were nationally broadcast so it didnt mean as much to so many people as LBJ quitting. I just dont care that much. Lebron laying down for 5 minutes really doesnt keep me up at night, or change my opinion on him that much. I knew he would leave Cleveland after the Orlando series in 09. Cleveland could never attract anyone worthy to pair with him.

Scottie Pippen threw a fucking whiny bitch temper tantrum in the playoffs before, and he's still a top 50 player.

When LBJ is holding multiple trophies, and a segment of fussy little girls in and around Chicago are still trying to call him out cus he didnt come here in the summer of 2010, I'll have a good chuckle. It's better for the league he went to Miami. Not better for the Bulls. Gonna be fun in the playoffs though.

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Are you inside every locker room?

That's an awful stretch for you to make. You're implying that James finding out about his mom being banged is the worst thing to have ever happened to a player. I agree, if I was said player and found out a teammate was banging my mom I'd be pissed. But the fact is plenty of people have to go to work each day perhaps knowing their wife is cheating, they're in debt, etc.....You're telling me a random event that has nothing to do with his profession is preventing him from performing his best at said profession.

Seriously, you cant debate without analogies? My God man.

I cant respond to another analogy. They are too painful to read.

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No I can debate without analogies, I just thought it'd be easier for you to understand that way

Pause.

Ok try again.

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I'm sorry, Ivan. I didn't intend to lump everyone into the same group, but it felt like I was being fired on by the resident NBA clique and Bagels' usage of "we" wasn't helping matters. Perhaps it was a royal we. Who knows. Anyway, I'm calmer now.

I don't have any problem with someone who is disappointed that LeBron chose to go to Miami. I don't think it has anything to do with his ability to play basketball though. And the constant drumbeat that he is a suddenly a different player than people thought he was a month ago after watching him for seven years seems a little like sour grapes to me.

You may have a point about ESPN protecting him. I was just as disturbed by Adrian Wojnarowski writing a four year old story about LeBron acting like a douche on the National team. Why wasn't that written before?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

There are some things you can never live down, JORR

You're telling me you cheat on your wife today and tell her "it's ok honey, i've been faithful for 7 years prior to this"

He quit. It's obvious. Pretty much everyone except JBills will agree with that

Do you not understand that taints his previous accomplishments? (whatever they were)

Scottie Pippen's legacy is still affected by that one incident as is evidenced by this thread. The same is true for Tiger Woods.

Sometimes you don't get a pass for things. It changes things even if it's the first time we've found about it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Bagels, Ive agreed with him quitting multiple times, and this is the second time Ive had to remind you that Ive said that. I just dont think it is all that damaging. 5 minutes, given the circumstances, isnt that bad. It really is no worse than letting Vince Carter shut you down four games in a row.

And you once again are using analogies. Is this a condition I dont know about?

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I'm not a LeBron fan. Not because I don't think he's a super talented player. He obviously is. I'm just not quick to put a crown on someone's head before they've really earned it. Like it or not, quitter or not, we can all see he's going to be viewed as a great player. Maybe not at that top, top level, but the jury's still out.

It seems to me that younger fans have this desire to have seen "the best ever". And so they're quick to anoint guys. Lincecum is the best ever - or at least on pace to be. Until he's not. And odds are overwhelming that he's not.

I heard bernstein trying to parse whether McGrady said he was once the top player in the NBA or not. They must have replayed the clip ten times. Well, danny must have forgotten how McGrady was viewed at one time.

My point is simply this, if you think he quit and can never view him the same, fine. I have no beef with you over that. But I really don't think all the vitriol that is being directed at LeBron has anything to do with anything that occurred on a basketball court. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

It couldn't have affected Pippen's legacy too much. He made the NBA's Top 50. Personally, he wouldn't make my Top 50.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

No, you're right there's no point in discussing this any further

you've admitting quitting for a short period of time is acceptable; I find that unacceptable. I doubt there is anything either of us can say that will change our opinions

This may be what you don't seem to get. No one is saying that Lebron sucks. You can't find a single post saying he's a bad player. He's probably already qualified for the next Top 50 list.

He just affected his legacy with many of his actions over the past 3 months. He also voluntarily took himself out of the conversation of greatest of all time and unknowingly stated as much with his quote about wanting to go to a team where they wouldn't have to rely on him to play well to win.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This may be what you don't seem to get. All I'm saying is that most people who believe his legacy has been affected don't think that because of two games against the Celtics where he "quit" or anything else that happened on a basketball court.

How did he "voluntarily take himself out of a conversation of the greatest of all time"? By choosing to play with other good players? So the choice to win with other good players is what counts, not actually playing with them? Because everyone that has won has had other good players on his team. Anyway, LeBron hasn't won anything yet. Maybe he never will. Let's wait to see what happens. If Miami wins five straight we can decide whose championships they were after it happens.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

They won't be LeBron's , that's for sure

There is no way of knowing that now.

I find this to be your oddest stance ever.


If LeBron is the best player, plays the best in the playoffs, and they win titles, those titles are his.

I dont know why you would think otherwise. I mean what if Wade pulls a J Williams or a Bison Dele? And they win titles. Are those Wade's posthoumous titles?

Of course things could change

As of right now, it's Wade's team

If Wade dies in a fiery car crash tomorrow or tears his ACL then yes things would change

If Wade tears his ACL, will they put both arms in slings?

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This is my signature...

i guess it's on a sliding scale with you, too