It is currently Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:42 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: "No sense of urgency"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 40983
Location: Chicago
pizza_Place: Lou Malanati's
While I have not heard or seen any quotes regarding the lack of urgency from fromt office memebrs I can only take the words of Mully and Biggs, that they have spoken to certain front office people at Halas Hall and this alleged sense of urgency is a myth.

This front office v coaches v players v fans contradiction is so fragile right now in it's balance that an opening loss, esepcially due to a lack of offense, in Week 1, should put every single Bears front office and coach on notice ASAP.

Or will a McCaskey sing to them?

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
How does a "sense of urgency" manifest itself on the football field?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 2288
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
The front office sense of urgency is to sell tickets. I believe they have succeeded in that endeavour.

_________________
rogers park bryan wrote:
Some people are stars and some work backstage.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92050
Location: To the left of my post
Bucky Chris wrote:
How does a "sense of urgency" manifest itself on the football field?
It's been widely reported that the Bears practices were comparatively easy to most of the other teams in the league. If they are behind because of that it will show up on the field. This is the same team that is breaking in a completely new offense and in the first game of the preseason the QB threw a total of 2 passes and then didn't play at all in the fourth game.

I guess we'll see how prepared the Bears look in the regular season but if the offense isn't clicking I think you can point to the two completely wasted preseason games as a missed opportunity to practice a very difficult offense.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
How does a "sense of urgency" manifest itself on the football field?
It's been widely reported that the Bears practices were comparatively easy to most of the other teams in the league. If they are behind because of that it will show up on the field. This is the same team that is breaking in a completely new offense and in the first game of the preseason the QB threw a total of 2 passes and then didn't play at all in the fourth game.

I guess we'll see how prepared the Bears look in the regular season but if the offense isn't clicking I think you can point to the two completely wasted preseason games as a missed opportunity to practice a very difficult offense.


I've actually heard differently. Zaidman has said a few times that the practices this year aren't like they were in the past (due to Martz, Marinelli, Tice, etc).


That being said, they still made it to the Super Bowl having really easy practices.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:29 am
Posts: 65767
Location: Darkside Estates
pizza_Place: A cat got an online degree.
I really thought Lovie made a big mistake last year not playing Cutler more in the Preseason. It's like, if there's no QB competition he's not even interested in seeing Cutler play.
So last year, new system for Cutler, new personel and he doesn't see any time in the preseason and looks woefully unprepared and discombobulated in that first game with GB. Something like 5 INT's right? Or 4? Either way A LOT.
Now, with a new system and some new personel do we learn from last year's issues?
Nope.
Lovie makes the same mistake 2 years in a row.
Look for Cutler to play 3 games before he starts clicking in his new system. Those 3 games could have been preseason games but no.

That's where lack of urgency shows up on the field, IMHO.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014
bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
One other thing too...


BigFan is referring to urgency in the front office. Not sure if he meant to include the coaching staff, but they typically don't fall under that label. If this is the case, are you guys suggesting the Front Office should tell Lovie to make practices harder... and that is what you mean by a sense of urgency?


If you meant strictly the front office and not the coaching staff, I actually think they have. Rather than keep and develop guys like Afalava and Iglesias (yes I know he is on the PS), they elected to keep guys who could potentially be better THIS year (Bullocks, Davis). To me, that's a win-now type of thought process which can sometimes be referred to as a "sense of urgency," as opposed to waiting on developing players like Afalava and Iglesias.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 7823
Location: Gai Paree
pizza_Place: Pisa Pizza, Countryside
Bucky Chris wrote:
I've actually heard differently. Zaidman has said a few times that the practices this year aren't like they were in the past (due to Martz, Marinelli, Tice, etc).

I don't know if that's the best source :wink:

_________________
team Mully & Hanley
team Meatpants


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
crosscheck wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
I've actually heard differently. Zaidman has said a few times that the practices this year aren't like they were in the past (due to Martz, Marinelli, Tice, etc).

I don't know if that's the best source :wink:


I don't disagree on your sentiment in general, but he has been at most if not all of the training camps in the Lovie era. If he sees a difference, I trust that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92050
Location: To the left of my post
Bucky Chris wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
How does a "sense of urgency" manifest itself on the football field?
It's been widely reported that the Bears practices were comparatively easy to most of the other teams in the league. If they are behind because of that it will show up on the field. This is the same team that is breaking in a completely new offense and in the first game of the preseason the QB threw a total of 2 passes and then didn't play at all in the fourth game.

I guess we'll see how prepared the Bears look in the regular season but if the offense isn't clicking I think you can point to the two completely wasted preseason games as a missed opportunity to practice a very difficult offense.


I've actually heard differently. Zaidman has said a few times that the practices this year aren't like they were in the past (due to Martz, Marinelli, Tice, etc).


That being said, they still made it to the Super Bowl having really easy practices.
In two of the preseason games, Cutler threw a total of 2 passes.

Did you really just quote Zach Zaidman as your source of real information about the Bears? :lol:

Last year, he told us that he thought Forte and Kevin Jones could EACH rush for 1,000 yards. :lol:

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
In two of the preseason games, Cutler threw a total of 2 passes.

Did you really just quote Zach Zaidman as your source of real information about the Bears? :lol:

Last year, he told us that he thought Forte and Kevin Jones could EACH rush for 1,000 yards. :lol:


So if Cutler would have thrown 10, the Bears win the Super Bowl? Why didn't you tell Lovie!?!?!? :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92050
Location: To the left of my post
Bucky Chris wrote:
So if Cutler would have thrown 10, the Bears win the Super Bowl? Why didn't you tell Lovie!?!?!? :lol:
Thank you for completely missing the point once again.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
So if Cutler would have thrown 10, the Bears win the Super Bowl? Why didn't you tell Lovie!?!?!? :lol:
Thank you for completely missing the point once again.



Fine. What number of pre-season passes equals a championship? :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 7823
Location: Gai Paree
pizza_Place: Pisa Pizza, Countryside
Image

_________________
team Mully & Hanley
team Meatpants


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:18 pm
Posts: 27517
Location: Rizzo fo Shizzo
pizza_Place: Pizza Villa in DeKalb.
The only thing I have seen is this weird sense of arrogance where there is this "fuck the pre-season, its a joke and anyone who puts an ounce of stock into it is football stupid" attitude. I hope they enjoyed the country club, its game time on Sunday and they better all show up kicking ass like a finely tuned machine from the opening kick off.

_________________
That's my purse! I don't know you!


Last edited by Urlacher's missing neck on Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92050
Location: To the left of my post
Bucky Chris wrote:
Fine. What number of pre-season passes equals a championship? :lol:
Do you really think that was my point? Stop trying to steal lines from Dan Bernstein and think you are making a decent point. No matter what the Bears do, they weren't winning a championship this year. I guess we should never question any decision that they make because of that. I mean, even if they had named Dan Lefevour the starting QB and released Jay Cutler it shouldn't be questioned because "Was Jay Cutler really going to equal a championship?".

Get back to me when you want to actually discuss the whole "brand new and complex offense needs more reps in game situations and having a total of 2 passes in 50% of those game situations is probably not going to help much" thing. Until then, keep trying to be Bernstein-lite while completely missing the point.

At least you can still listen to Zach Zaidman as he plays the role of Iraqi Information Minister for the Bears instead of using some common sense and trying to understand that the Bears may have mismanaged installing a completely new offense.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Darkside wrote:
I really thought Lovie made a big mistake last year not playing Cutler more in the Preseason. It's like, if there's no QB competition he's not even interested in seeing Cutler play.
So last year, new system for Cutler, new personel and he doesn't see any time in the preseason and looks woefully unprepared and discombobulated in that first game with GB. Something like 5 INT's right? Or 4? Either way A LOT.
Now, with a new system and some new personel do we learn from last year's issues?
Nope.
Lovie makes the same mistake 2 years in a row.
Look for Cutler to play 3 games before he starts clicking in his new system. Those 3 games could have been preseason games but no.

That's where lack of urgency shows up on the field, IMHO.


I don't think anyone would argue against the common fact that more reps help. More reps of anything help. I'm sure you don't think Lovie disagrees with that statement.

So what's the reason Lovie is keeping Cutler (or Urlacher, or Briggs) out of the game? Obviously it's so they don't get injured.

If I am Lovie, and I am to have a BIG sense of urgency to win this year... I'm protecting Jay as much as I can. If that means he is a little off in game 1 against the Lions, I live with that over Jay being knocked out for the year. If Jay gets hurt, I have no hope. Zero. No amount of "hard practices," reps or anything else changes that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Fine. What number of pre-season passes equals a championship? :lol:
Do you really think that was my point? Stop trying to steal lines from Dan Bernstein and think you are making a decent point. No matter what the Bears do, they weren't winning a championship this year. I guess we should never question any decision that they make because of that. I mean, even if they had named Dan Lefevour the starting QB and released Jay Cutler it shouldn't be questioned because "Was Jay Cutler really going to equal a championship?".

Get back to me when you want to actually discuss the whole "brand new and complex offense needs more reps in game situations and having a total of 2 passes in 50% of those game situations is probably not going to help much" thing. Until then, keep trying to be Bernstein-lite while completely missing the point.

At least you can still listen to Zach Zaidman as he plays the role of Iraqi Information Minister for the Bears instead of using some common sense and trying to understand that the Bears may have mismanaged installing a completely new offense.


Guess it's on me. I'll go look and see how many pre-season passes Drew Brees threw last year. Then I'll have my number.

Thanks for nothing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92050
Location: To the left of my post
Bucky Chris wrote:
I don't think anyone would argue against the common fact that more reps help. More reps of anything help. I'm sure you don't think Lovie disagrees with that statement.
What number of pre-season passes equals a championship? :lol:

That statement looks pretty foolish now.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92050
Location: To the left of my post
Bucky Chris wrote:
Guess it's on me. I'll go look and see how many pre-season passes Drew Brees threw last year. Then I'll have my number.
What new offense did New Orleans run last year? Oh wait...it was the same.
Bucky Chris wrote:
Thanks for nothing.
I'm sorry I couldn't give you great information like Zach Zaidman. You probably also believe that Olsen isn't and never was on the trading block don't you? :lol:

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
I don't think anyone would argue against the common fact that more reps help. More reps of anything help. I'm sure you don't think Lovie disagrees with that statement.
What number of pre-season passes equals a championship? :lol:

That statement looks pretty foolish now.


Thank you for completely missing the point once again! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Guess it's on me. I'll go look and see how many pre-season passes Drew Brees threw last year. Then I'll have my number.
What new offense did New Orleans run last year? Oh wait...it was the same.
Bucky Chris wrote:
Thanks for nothing.
I'm sorry I couldn't give you great information like Zach Zaidman. You probably also believe that Olsen isn't and never was on the trading block don't you? :lol:


Wait... stop. You know I was kidding around about the pre-season pass thing, right?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:29 am
Posts: 65767
Location: Darkside Estates
pizza_Place: A cat got an online degree.
Bucky Chris wrote:
I don't think anyone would argue against the common fact that more reps help. More reps of anything help. I'm sure you don't think Lovie disagrees with that statement.

So what's the reason Lovie is keeping Cutler (or Urlacher, or Briggs) out of the game? Obviously it's so they don't get injured.

If I am Lovie, and I am to have a BIG sense of urgency to win this year... I'm protecting Jay as much as I can. If that means he is a little off in game 1 against the Lions, I live with that over Jay being knocked out for the year. If Jay gets hurt, I have no hope. Zero. No amount of "hard practices," reps or anything else changes that.

This seriously read like a ZZ post. :lol: I actually heard his voice in my head as I read it.
If he's keeping Cutler out to avoid an injury that speaks much more toward his faith in his line and in his OCord which appears to be little to none. So they don't get hurt. Why Nancy these guys when you HAVE to get these crucial reps?

Possibility of injury < More Reps for new system.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014
bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92050
Location: To the left of my post
Bucky Chris wrote:
Wait... stop. You know I was kidding around about the pre-season pass thing, right?
You weren't kidding. You just now realized how silly that sounded and you've decided to say it was a joke. Jokes are normally funny or interesting. It was just a bad point.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:49 pm
Posts: 7806
Location: Permanent hiatus
pizza_Place: Ban me
Rick they didn't play Cutler more in the first game because they were still working out kinks in the offense. With the Chargers blitzing like it was Week 2 it made no sense risking injury to Cutler or any other key offensive player. I'm sure they are getting enough reps in practice against a defense that knows what they are going to do. Only difference is they aren't getting hit. I would say all of the moves made during the offseason pretty much proves the Bears have a sense of urgency. The thing is they are mortgaging the future at many positions just to win now. In a couple years the offense will probably be really good and the defense will suck because they aren't developing anyone.

_________________
spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Darkside wrote:
Why Nancy these guys when you HAVE to get these crucial reps?


Like I said, if it's me, and I am coaching for my job, I fuck the reps and make sure Cutler isn't injured. I actually agree holding out Cutler means the offensive line sucks... that was sort of the point of what I was saying.

So to sum it up again... if I am coaching this team (and trying to save my job) and see how awful the o-line is, I don't let Jay go out there and get injured. I sacrifice the reps to keep him healthy.



Now... if I knew I was coaching this team for the next 5 years, my stance might change. I'd be more inclined to get more reps and risk the injury. I also keep Iglesias and Afalava, not Davis and Bullocks.

We have what we have now because people DO have a "sense of urgency" in my opinion, and it's making the Bears worse, IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Wait... stop. You know I was kidding around about the pre-season pass thing, right?
You weren't kidding. You just now realized how silly that sounded and you've decided to say it was a joke. Jokes are normally funny or interesting. It was just a bad point.


:lol:


You're losing it, dude.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92050
Location: To the left of my post
HOVA wrote:
Rick they didn't play Cutler more in the first game because they were still working out kinks in the offense. With the Chargers blitzing like it was Week 2 it made no sense risking injury to Cutler or any other key offensive player.
What's the excuse in week 4? If the offense looks great in the first 4 weeks of the season bump this post and tell me how wrong it was and how it made no difference. My guess is that besides the Lions game that the offense will still look like a work in progress. That's simply because I don't know how good the Lions defense will be.
HOVA wrote:
I'm sure they are getting enough reps in practice against a defense that knows what they are going to do. Only difference is they aren't getting hit.
So the problem with the offense seems to be that they can't handle a blitz and are worried about getting hit?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
HOVA wrote:
Rick they didn't play Cutler more in the first game because they were still working out kinks in the offense. With the Chargers blitzing like it was Week 2 it made no sense risking injury to Cutler or any other key offensive player. I'm sure they are getting enough reps in practice against a defense that knows what they are going to do. Only difference is they aren't getting hit. I would say all of the moves made during the offseason pretty much proves the Bears have a sense of urgency. The thing is they are mortgaging the future at many positions just to win now. In a couple years the offense will probably be really good and the defense will suck because they aren't developing anyone.


Very well put.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:29 am
Posts: 8116
Location: South Elgin
pizza_Place: Ian's Pizza
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
HOVA wrote:
Rick they didn't play Cutler more in the first game because they were still working out kinks in the offense. With the Chargers blitzing like it was Week 2 it made no sense risking injury to Cutler or any other key offensive player.
What's the excuse in week 4? If the offense looks great in the first 4 weeks of the season bump this post and tell me how wrong it was and how it made no difference. My guess is that besides the Lions game that the offense will still look like a work in progress. That's simply because I don't know how good the Lions defense will be.
HOVA wrote:
I'm sure they are getting enough reps in practice against a defense that knows what they are going to do. Only difference is they aren't getting hit.
So the problem with the offense seems to be that they can't handle a blitz and are worried about getting hit?


They offense won't look good because the offensive line sucks.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group