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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The Sox have their work cut out for them tonight, with Verlander going tonight in Detroit ..... Verlander is 14-8 on the season and has an ERA of 3.61. His record in home games is 9-3, with a sparkling 2.63 ERA.





Also, the Sox are an MLB best 53-27 since June 9.


:roll: They are just 14-14 since August the 6th, despite winning their last 7. The Twins are 30-11 in their last 41.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:49 pm 
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The Sox are 77-60 since 4/5


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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about. The numbers have ALWAYS been determined by extrapolating the winning percentage accumulated over the entire season to date.

Try again...


Why don't you extrapolate the Twins and Sox wins from June 9th?
Oh, thats right, because,

Frank Coztansa wrote:
Also, the Sox are an MLB best 53-27 since June 9.


Try again :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:54 pm 
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The Sox are 76-60 since April 6th.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
^^ Some interesting numbers there. I was going to post that memory serves that the Sock has lit up Verlander a few times in the past.

Freddy is kind of scary right now, he's had some gutty performances in his wins, but usually you can tell pretty early when he's gonna get rocked. I would think everyone in the pen would be available outside of Sale.


The key to them agains Verlander is to wait him out. The guy throws a ton of pitches, and he occasionally has control issues.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Here's the lineup:

Pierre LF
Vizquel 2B
Rios CF
Manny DH
Quentin RF
AJ C
Ramirez SS
Kotsay 1B
Teahen 3B

Edit-Beckham scratched per the Score. I'm assuming this is the lineup, but I will fix when I know for certain.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:02 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about. The numbers have ALWAYS been determined by extrapolating the winning percentage accumulated over the entire season to date.

Try again...


Why don't you extrapolate the Twins and Sox wins from June 9th?



Because just as it would be unfair of me to extrapolate numbers from the last 41 games, in which the Twins went 30-11, the most fair manner to determine the record a team is likely to finish with, is to use the entire season to date. Taking a smaller sample size that unfairly incorporates interleague games is too unreliable. Taking each team's record in games played only against A.L. competition would actually be much more fair, since each team will only face A.L. teams (prior to World Series competition in the playoffs). The Twins record VS A.L. teams is 75-48 a .609 winning percentage. the Sox are just 65-57 in A.L. competition -a .532 winning percentage. If you use those winning percentages to determine the remainder of games for each team, the Twins should win 14-15 (14.6) of their remaining 24 games, giving them between 95-96 total wins. The Sox based on their .532 winning percentage in A.L. competition, should win 13 more games and finish with 90 wins.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:58 pm 
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So you can't paint us a picture based on those results?

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
HOVA wrote:
Bagels wrote:


You present the argument as if Steve is extrapolating based on a 1-0 record but he's not..he's extrapolating based on a season that is 90% finished. I think that's a far greater set of data and your comparison is a bit unfair. I think based on this many games, if they're played .580 baseball it's reasonable to expect that they'll continue to do so.


He wasn't. He based his math off their current run. Noway in hell is that conservative.



Bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about. The numbers have ALWAYS been determined by extrapolating the winning percentage accumulated over the entire season to date. That percentage now stands at .587 if you figure that percentage over 162 games, it comes out to 95.094 . The number does change as the season goes on and the winning percentage changes, however at no time did the Twins record since the All-Star break/ their last 10 games (8-2) /or last 41 games (30-11) figure more prominently into the equation. I always used the entire season to date, with no game meaning more than another. . It was always a figure drawn from the extrapolation of the entire seasonal record to date. A loss in April means as much as a win during the current winning streak.

Try again...


Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Well, you said the Twins wouldn't win 93 games a couple weeks ago, when the winning % was extrapolated at that time to predict 93 wins. Now... if the Twins were to just win half their remaining games they would finish with 93 wins. But given that the Twins are 30-11 in their last 41 games I don't expect the twins to just win half their remaining games. Predicting they will win 95, in light of having won 8 of their last 10 and 30 of 41, is actually fairly conservative.


You're saying it is more likely the Twins continue to win at their current .700 pace. That is bullshit. No team stays that hot for that long. At some point they come back to Earth. The Twins will come back to Earth.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:25 pm 
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NO... :roll: God are you dense....I'm saying (as I have said all along), that I expect them to win at the pace they have established for themselves during the entire season. At the time Joe said there is no way the Twins win 93, the Twins winning percentage (ON THE SEASON) was a bit lower. After winning 8 of the last 10 (thats a .800 pace) their winning percentage raised a bit as one might expect. However, the mathematical equtions used has always been based upon the entire season to date and mearly adjusted ( as a teams winning percentage changes with each game played) with each win or loss. My personal expectation, (which pretty well matches the mathematical probabilities reached) is that the Twins finish with 94-95 wins and the Sox finish with 90 wins.

You need to stick to politics...you're in over your head here.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:40 pm 
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2-0 Tigers :D

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:45 pm 
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The key is the Twins are 36-19 in divisional play and since other than the A's and 1 with the Jays I believe the Twins will be tuff to beat, The 3 game series with them is it... gotta sweep :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:55 pm 
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Fred goes 2 with a back.4 last out 2 tonite.........couldn't Kenny see this a comin?

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:55 pm 
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How are you not saying it's more likely the Twins continue to win at their current pace IF winning at their season pace is conservative?

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Predicting they will win 95, in light of having won 8 of their last 10 and 30 of 41, is actually fairly conservative.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:49 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
How are you not saying it's more likely the Twins continue to win at their current pace IF winning at their season pace is conservative?

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Predicting they will win 95, in light of having won 8 of their last 10 and 30 of 41, is actually fairly conservative.


I was saying (as I will again now) that rather than taking into consideration how well the Twins have played since the All-Star break or say..... in their last 41 games in which they have gone 30-11 (.731) .....or in their last 10 ( 8-2= .800). I was staying with the numbers generated only through the equtions generated by their full season (to date) stats. In light of the far greater winning percentage the Twins have generated more recently, it is reasonable to believe they may well exceed the total of 95 that their current winning percentage predicts when extrapolated. You see, if you examined the pace they had set for themselves 10 games ago, it was .570 (after they had lost 3 straight to the Rangers in their only losing series since the All-Star break) and they were on pace to win between 92-93 games. But after going 8-2 in the past 10 games their winning percentage rose to .587. They are now on pace to win 95, as they won 2 extra games in that 10 game span, over and above that which their winning percentage on the season would predict. If you can't understand it now, you are just stupid and I am done trying to explain it to you.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:58 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Fred goes 2 with a back.4 last out 2 tonite.........couldn't Kenny see this a comin?


Lucky for Ozzie, they have some extra arms from the September call-ups. But with the Sox losing 6-1 and the Twins ahead 1-0, things are not going well for the Sox this evening so far. This is a game they can ill afford to lose and as I said, Verlander is tough in that ballpark (9-3 2.63 ERA).

* When Brandon Inge steals a base on your catcher, thats sad.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:08 pm 
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7-0 Twins now. Thome has scored twice. Liriano is pitching for the Twins and has shut out the Royals so far. Their game is in the bottom of the 3rd inning.

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Last edited by Elmhurst Steve on Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:08 pm 
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What happened in the Cubs game?

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:10 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
What happened in the Cubs game?

4-3 Astros top of 4th

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:15 pm 
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Will you be running a new statistical analysis if the sox end up losing but the twins win?

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Will you be running a new statistical analysis if the sox end up losing but the twins win?


The numbers change (ever so slightly) with every game played added to the equations. So until the Twins clinch, I would anticipate regular updates. :wink:

***Josh Fields hit a homer for the Royals in the top of the 4th inning and it's now 7-1 Twins in the bottom of the 4th.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Thornton trying to retaliate for the Tigers hitting Manny and ends up taking out the ump.


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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Fred goes 2 with a back.4 last out 2 tonite.........couldn't Kenny see this a comin?



Freddie is done. Kenny and Ozzie both fucked up here. He should have never been on the mound tonight, but it provides me with a easy winner at the window, alone with the Rays.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Manny has been hit what 5 or 6 times since being acquired? Whats up with that?

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:37 pm 
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I hope that meat Inge got came with a potato and choice of vegetable.... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:37 pm 
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Christ, Carlos Torres is fucking terrible.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:40 pm 
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Carlos Torres does not belong on a big league team in a pennant race regardless of a five run deficit. It's Guillen quitting on his team. Williams shouldn't have this guy up here. He needs to Ozzie-proof the roster so Guillen can't play the wrong guys in wrong situations. The game was probably lost anyway, but it's just goddamn dumb that a real pitcher wasn't in the game. And yesterday he rests Rios, Konerko, and Ramirez all at the same time? Is this donkey trying to blow the fucking thing?

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Just heard fireworks? Who homered?

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Almost identical score in the Twins game....they lead 9-2 in the bottom of the 5th.

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 Post subject: Re: WhiteSox @ Tigers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Eaglo Jeff wrote:
Just heard fireworks? Who homered?

Those were gunshots. Sox are in Detroit.

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