In light of Ichiro getting his 200th hit for the 10th straight year, I began wondering about the all time hits leader. I don't remember him being all that great during my baseball consciousness. I looked into his stats and nothing but the sheer number of hits jumps out at you. He never had an overwhelming amount of hits in any single season. He didn't have an eye popping average in any year. It seems like he was just good for a prolonged sense of time. Still, longevity does not necessarily make a legend, and it seems to be a granted that he is a legend.

So I ask the old farts of the board who saw him play during the prime of his 23 year career, was Rose that great of a baseball player or is he just the 60-80s version of fire and passion?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

He was the MVP in 1973. 746 doubles ( 30+ 15 times) is awfully impressive. So is the fact that he had 1314 RBI while hitting 'only' 160 home runs. He scored 2165 runs (100 + runs 10 times). 1566 walks and 1143 strike outs. He played in 150+ games 17 times. He also had a 44 game hitting streak (3rd all time). Charlie Hustle was much more than fire and passion.

Good Dolphin's next threads:

"Was Cy Young That Great?"

"Who was this Henry Aaron that they speak of?"

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Sometimes records get stockpiled because a guy stuck around for X number of years.
He was a "Punch & Judy" hitter with some doubles thrown in for good measure. I think he is a HOF though because his totals were very good to great in many instances. He was also surrounded by some great hitters in his REDS tenure.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

You didn't see him play in his prime. You're just agreeing with conventional wisdom.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Agreed, Ichiro is a better all around ballplayer than the Prince-Valiant-bowl-cut-hairstyled Pete Rose ever was.

Does anybody know which Hall of Famer sarcastically gave Pete Rose the name "Charlie Hustle?"

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1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
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XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

Johnny Bench?

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Negative. The person who is the correct answer might have driven a WHITE FORD.

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1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
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XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

Zolio Versailles

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Ahh,I got ya. George Mitterwald?

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Whitey Ford of Course.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

This is like asking was spmack a great poster in his prime?

Was Kid overdramatic in his prime?

Of course they were, just like Pete Rose was a great player.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

He was no Ron Santo,that's for sure.

Here is a FUN fact: Pete rose had about 6000 more at bats then Ron Santo BUT had 17 LESS RBI.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/compare.asp

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

I'm still in my prime, buddy.

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No Dallas Cowboy cheerleader pics kind of proves otherwise,Spmack.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

This guy agrees with you.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Yes, an Allstar at 2b,Lf,Rf,3b and 1b, Has more hits than anyone.Why ask a question like this?

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

he was a pretty good outfielder. legit HOF cailber. not upper echelon like ruth, mays, mantle, but better than others.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

15th in WAR since 1955:

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/top300.htm

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

"Gretzky was a punk!"

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I think he was kind of a rich man's Ryan Theriot.

He wasn't as good as Ichiro in my opinion. Rose was remarkable in his ability to play so many positions at least adequately. But in truth, he was never a truely great fielder at any position even though he won 2 gold gloves as an outfielder. Ichiro has been an exceptional right fielder and was a good Center Fielder too. Look at batting averages and you see Rose averaged .303, while Ichiro has a .331 average. Plus, I have to give Ichiro the edge as a baserunner. Rose got every bit he could out of his ability and deserves to be in the HOF, but one of his greatest assets as a ballplayer, was longevity. He was a very good player, who stayed healthy and was able to play a very long time. One of the things I remember best about him, was how hard he was to strike out. He would foul off pitch after pitch, before the pitcher finally made a mistake and then he would put the ball in play (often for a hit). He made very few unproductive outs with runners on base too. If he didn't get a hit, he almost alwasys would move the runner along. A solid player and a winner.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Surely you jest.

their career OPS+ is the same and at their peak, rose's was better. of course rose hung around way too long and dragged the career numbers down somewhat.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Rose was a HUGE overachiever.

His natural talent/athletic ability to success ratio would be near the top.

Ichiro is a great baserunner and is certainly faster than Rose, but Rose had the highest baseball IQ I've ever seen, especially on the basepaths.

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I agree with GD's perception of Rose as I also saw him at the end of his career and thats what you remember.

I think Rose's utility, hustle, knowledge, etc all contribute to the fact his teams won, which is all that matters.

David Eckstein might not even have the pure talent to be a MLB player but the guy made big plays when on good teams and when you have 9 guys that all get it, your teams win. When you have 9 Sorianos, they dont.

Don't know if they have retro wins shares, but would be cool to see.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

So, was Mark Grace a great player in the '90s? He had more hits than anyone, so that would mean great right?

It's a fair question to ask, especially for those who didn't see his entire career.

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I think you'd have to say yes. His OBP and slugging were better in the 90's than Ichiro's were in the 00's.

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