Well if DT finds that unlistenable...well then...I guess we wont be listening to much Led Zeppelin together at all will we!!??

Probably not.

As far as Zep goes, Albums 1-6 (5 and 6 being Houses of the Holy and Physical Graffiti, smartasses) are better than anything the Beatles did besides Sgt Pepper. IMO, the Beatles didn't make good music until they stopped touring and started doing serious drugs.

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Body of work and duration of career does count, what did the beatles tour for? Four years?

They were on the mountaintop for that period, then again, Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston ruled the roost for four years or so also.

The Beatles toured so little because they could. I'd say they paid their dues playing four sets a night 7 days a week in that shithole Hamburg bar.

Plus, The Beatles were putting out classic albums every 6 months. Today you're lucky if a band puts out an album every 5 years. The Stones haven't put out anything of quality in 30+ years. The Beatles body of work for 7 years was incredible.

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"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

Beethoven sucked. He never went on tour.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Touring means nothing?

it means nothing to me. i have an ipod.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

to bring the story full circle...I believe Mac once attended a show with his kids of a band he didnt like and rocked out to Zeppelin on the IPOD at the show.



Have fun listening to Beethoven on your IPOD

Ill be at Woodstock

pick up some halloween candy at farm and fleet for me.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Ringo was a great drummer for the Beatles. They didn't need Keith Moon or Bonzo on drums. His drum fills in "A Day in the Life" are exceptional. Plus I'm an expert on them because I played them all on Beatles: Rock Band. Also even when Lennon was spaced out Harrison and McCartney were still on top of their game. They were never bad unless you consider sometimes they weren't instant top 100 album of all time bad.

It's irrelevant if they were touring or if they were hang gliding or teaching our nation's children to read; it has no relation to quality of album.

They're fine, they're not offensive, but in many cases (e.g., instrumentally, engineering) they never did anything that was really interesting once you start to listen, listen, and listen over a period of time.

For me, I don't know the last time I elected to listen to a Zep chart ... if it comes around on the radio or shuffle mix, I might take a listen for the sake of musical curiosity, but most of the time I find it a tedious chore - which may stem from the fact that I'm at a loss as to why so many people think that they're the greatest / most important thing to happen to music since Coleman Hawkins helped kick the clarinet to the curb in Jazz.

That and, as it happens, Stairway to Heaven was plagiarized ... but I'll assume we're all already aware of that. Suffice to say, a band's most iconic song being a ripoff doesn't really speak well either of their prowess or their legions of fans.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Proof.

and I barely like that song.

Its their most popular but far from their best.

Pardon me; StH was more of a left-handed swipe:

The Stairway to Heaven song's opening guitar arpeggios are strikingly "similar" to the guitar line from the instrumental track "Taurus" by the American band Spirit, for whom Led Zeppelin toured as support act in 1968. Randy California writes: People always ask me why "Stairway to Heaven" sounds exactly like "Taurus", which was released two years earlier. I know Led Zeppelin also played "Fresh Garbage" in their live set. They opened up for us on their first American tour.

(the internet will surely be able to locate the song for you; essentially the progressions are virtually identical and the guitar "theme" in each song's opening are too close to be coincidence, particularly in light of their touring together for some time)

The rip-off was on Dazed & Confused: http://www.turnmeondeadman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28&Itemid=38 .... includes a nice straightforward visual comparison about halfway through.

And there's bits and pieces here and there on a number of other songs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin#Allegations_of_plagiarism):

The credits for a number of Led Zeppelin's songs have been the subject of debate concerning their copyright. "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" from Led Zeppelin was thought to be a traditional song and was credited as "Trad. arr. Page" but it was actually written by folk singer Anne Bredon. Since 1990, the Led Zeppelin version has been credited to Anne Bredon/Jimmy Page & Robert Plant, and Bredon received a substantial back-payment in royalties.

"Dazed and Confused" was allegedly derived from a Jake Holmes song of the same name released in 1967 and had been performed by Page with the Yardbirds. In June 2010, Holmes filed a lawsuit against Jimmy Page for copyright infringement in United States District Court, claiming Page knowingly copied his work.

On Led Zeppelin II the prelude to "Bring It On Home" was a cover of Sonny Boy Williamson's 1963 recording of "Bring It On Home", written by Willie Dixon. Similarly, "The Lemon Song" included an adaptation of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor".

In 1972, Arc Music, the publishing arm of Chess Records, brought a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement over "Bring It On Home" and "The Lemon Song"; the case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum. Dixon himself did not benefit from the settlement until he sued Arc Music to recover his royalties and copyrights. In addition, "Whole Lotta Love" contained lyrics that were derivative of Dixon's 1962 song "You Need Love", though the riff from the song was an original Jimmy Page composition.

In 1985, Dixon filed a copyright infringement suit against Led Zeppelin over "Whole Lotta Love" and an out-of-court settlement was reached. Later pressings of Led Zeppelin II credit Dixon. The band also paid a settlement to the publisher of Ritchie Valens' song "Ooh! My Head" over the song "Boogie with Stu" (from Physical Graffiti) which borrowed heavily from Valens' song.

Dave Headlam, in an article entitled "Does the song remain the same? Questions of authenticity and identification in the music of Led Zeppelin", suggests that "...in the course of studies on the music of Led Zeppelin, it has become apparent that many songs are compilations of pre-existent material from multiple sources, both acknowledged and unacknowledged." He contends that "...songs like 'Whole Lotta Love' and 'Dazed and Confused' are on the one hand not "authored" by Led Zeppelin, but on the other hand are virtual signatures identifying the band's musical essence."

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Zeppelin II was done while on tour. If you listen to it, the guitars don't sound the same at all (different settings, different studios, etc etc). III was mainly recorded while the band was on vacation in Wales. But they were off the road for like barely a year.

As far as a "source" for being sloppy, just check youtube. I can post a couple of links later when I get home. A sloppy Jimmy Page was still generally pretty good, and when he was on it was amazing. For the most part, Zeppelin shows up to 1973 were pretty good. '75 was pretty hit or miss and there were only a handful of real good shows on that '77 tour. Drugs had really taken effect by that time, but there were still a good chunk of early shows that were not up to par. Robert Plant didn't take the best care of himself, though he tried to take care of his voice. When they toured the states in the winter, he caught a couple pretty serious bouts of pnemonia, and his voice never really recovered. There's a few bootless I've heard where you might as well had a frog sing because he had nothing.

John Paul Jones though was always 100% solid, and outside of a mild case of heatstroke in Europe in 1980, John Bonham was always awesome and never missed a gig regardless of how much he had drank that day and/or the night before.

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Foo Fighters (one of my favorite bands) then slightly ripped off the opening riff to "Stairway" then with "The Pretender". Compare them some time if you haven't.

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-"God is great. Beer is good. And People are crazy!"

So then you weren't actually there, were you?

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The Beatles are the greatest band of all time & it isn't close.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

I prefer The Beatles over Stones, but this statement of your is just asenine.

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-"God is great. Beer is good. And People are crazy!"

George Harrison was also known to "borrow" from others. It's been alleged that he derived
Taxman from the Batman theme. That there's that plagerism lawsuit he lost.

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"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

Uh, I don't think you quite get the concept here .... and I've never heard of that "lawsuit" or "allegation" previously .... also, there was a (quite small) judgment against a group named "The Jam" for a chart they did in 1980 called 'Start!' which lifted directly (and obviously so) from an alternate take of "Taxman". That's the only case involving "Taxman" I've ever heard of.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Harrson definately lost a lawsuit over "My Sweet Lord" because it copied "He's So Fine.". Taxman doesn't ring a bell.

oh great, the beatles debate! i hope IB stops in!

There is no objective "greatest band" ... don't bother dressing it up as anything but opinion because that's all it is.

If one wants to state what goes into their opinion of "favorite band", that can be groovy every once in a great while. But let's not start more stupidity than already infects the board as it is by saying "x" is a greater band than "y".

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

X is a great band. I've never heard of "y."

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I don't remember half the time if I'm hiding or I'm lost

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Don't fucking tell me what I do or don't "get". I guess in your world, if you didn't hear about it, it didn't happen. Ok, I got it you condescending prick.

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"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

Ok, this is hysterical on a couple levels.

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Agreed. But no one tell Darko that the best part of a Dead concert was the parking lot

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.