Yes. Minnesota is terrible. They fired the coach midway through the season because of just how bad they are. South Dakota beat them at home.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Probably. Illinois is a very talented team whose confidence is just shaky.

And they could have easily won this last game if the refs don't stop a play that they thought was a forward pass and not a lateral that would have put Illinois inside the 10 at least and possibly another TD on the play that Illinois then gave up on downs the next play because the wind was too strong to kick a field goal.

But, Illinois played poorly and blew a 2 score lead with 8 minutes to play with poor special teams and a stupid penalty. Illinois' D has played poorly in 3 1/2 games - the second half at Missouri, NIU, Michigan, and Minnesota. But, prior to the last 2 games, Illinois had the 15th ranked defense in Division I.

So, I'd say the BRick has it exactly right. The Michigan game was demoralizing to a defense that was just getting used to success and they had a let-down last week.

_________________
You know me like that.

My time to ask you a simple question.

Would NIU be 6-0 in the Big Ten right now?

_________________
You know me like that.

So if we throw out 35% of the games this year, Illinois defense is dominant.


No chance.

Sorry, which 6-0 Big Ten team are you referencing?

_________________

Just using Illinois 2010 schedule, NIU could easily have the same conference record as Illinois does (3-4). Since we are trying to compare the two school sdirectly, that would be a more valid point than asking if NIU would be 6-0 in the Big Ten right now.

_________________

Actually, just the last 2 games, showing that Illinois' defense had been playing quite well prior to these last two games.




I'm referencing the fact that NIU is getting votes because their record is 8-2, including a 6-0 record in the MAC.

Would NIU be 8-2 (6-0) playing Illinois' schedule?

NIU with wins against Ohio State, at East Lansing, Missouri....well done.

_________________
You know me like that.

Illinois loses to fucking Minnesota & the alumns are still defending their team rather than calling for the dismissal of the 2 Ron's. This program is going nowhere as long as these 2 guys are running the show.
Illinois fans whining about NIU sound like White Sox fans who are always bitching about the Cubs.

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

You're starting to have a different conversation. I never said NIU would be 8-2 in the Big Ten, 6-0 in the Big Ten, beat Ohio St., etc.


I simply said that NIU is a better football team right now. It would seem that most people that pay attention to college football would tend to agree, using the latest polls as a pretty good instrument to measure that.

_________________

NIU is a nice program. They seem to be consistently competitive in their conference. Good for them.

I've got no problem with NIU.

_________________
You know me like that.

You just admitted that NIU would be about 5-6, at best, right now if they played Illinois schedule. They would not be ranked at that record.

The polls are a horrible way to determine who is a better team.

A good way would be for those 2 teams to play each other and see how the teams perform.

_________________
You know me like that.

Last time I checked you only get one chance in a season to beat a team. Lot of teams could play the What If game right about now. It's over, done with....

And how long is that valid? The performance of each team for the next 6+ games isn't an indicator of how good those teams are?

_________________

This thread is great.

I am glad to know now that after Illinois wetting the bed to Minny that I now know that IU is the better team.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

We're not going to get anywhere here.

_________________
You know me like that.

I don't believe that either one of us is playing the "what if" game regarding the head-to-head matchup between the two. Illinois won that day and deserved to - it was not a fluk-ey outcome.

That doesn't change the popular belief that NIU is a better team right now.

_________________

43 Illinois A = 75.11

_________________
You know me like that.

I wonder if in 2008 if Ball State actually believed it was the 13th best team in the country because they were ranked there in the coaches poll.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I would guess.......yes.

Are you unfamiliar with the widespread use of the polls to determine a ranking of teams? There are decades of history behind them. Check it out.

_________________

You rarely ever hear of a dispute when it comes to ranking teams via a voter poll.

_________________
You know me like that.

Are you unfamiliar that "others receiving votes" is not really considered reliable? I'm pretty sure that Delaware is not better than Florida for instance even if the "others receiving votes" says otherwise.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

We're not talking one or two votes. (And, not that you care, nobody is talking about Delaware or Florida).

37 votes.
Zero votes.

Pretty substantial.


Dr. Ken, I can't see your image (red x) - but I'm sure it's overwhelmingly funny.

_________________

It really isn't. In general, being in the top 25 or within a few votes of the top 25 is considered significant. At the lowest numbers it's often, especially with the MAC, a function of the coaches in the same conference and coaches who played that team giving them some votes. Ironically, Zook likely gave NIU a vote or two in the poll. I don't even blame the MAC coaches for doing this. They aren't lying. They may honestly believe that NIU is good enough to be ranked. I'd almost always put my conference champion higher up in the poll. Given we can't see who voted for who it's still a guess.

When NIU gets around 100 votes in the poll, which they probably will, they can start to claim it as evidence of superiority in my opinion.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Meanwhile, in the rest of the country's opinion, NIU is ranked as a better team right now.

_________________

What rank is NIU?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

29th. I believe that makes them exactly 37 votes higher than Illinois.

_________________

Did they change a rule? I've never heard of a 29th ranked college football team.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No the rule the rule is the same as it's always been:

Everyone but a Purdue grad may count past 25.


Maybe find an ND grad that can explain to you that numbers can actually go much higher.


So, by your wild assumption, it's Zook and all of the MAC coaches that are casting votes in the coaches poll. Again, like you said we have no way of knowing that, but that didn't stop you from putting it out there like usual. So who's casting all the votes in the media poll - that powerful DeKalb area press/mafia? Maybe it's the Chiacgo-area media, because we all know that the Chicago media tends to follow NIU more than Illinois ( ).

It really is a simple and non-controversial statement, despite what you are trying to say:

NIU is widely considered a better football team right now, by many different obserevrs.

_________________

I can count past 25 no problem. It just seems strange to me that the poll only goes up to 25 if it actually goes up much higher. It's strange. Congratulations on being ranked to start the year this year. That one vote you got means you were ranked!
It's not exactly a secret that the coaches poll is filled with a large amount of coaches who vote for teams in their own conference at a rate higher than most others. I'm sure it was just 37 coaches happening to put NIU at 25 though.
That is a "wild assumption" on your part. It is possible that only two coaches poll voters actually even picked NIU. If you are going to say I can't speculate then you can't say this either. It is very much possible that most of the MAC coaches put NIU at around 20 and that's why the votes are how they are. They may even believe that is true. I wouldn't blame them. I'd do that with my vote.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So, spanky, if Illinois was playing NIU at Wrigley this Saturday, how would the game go?

In what aspects do the matchups favor NIU and what would the score be?

_________________
You know me like that.

Except the whole part about it not being an assumption. None of the following are assumed in any way:

-NIU has a higher "standing" in the coaches poll. (I know how you hate the word "rank" so I'm trying to work with you on this one). In fact, Illinois doesn't have a single vote.
-NIU has a higher standing in the media poll. In fact, Illinois doesn't have a single vote.
-NIU is a long winning streak
-Illinois just lost to Minnesota at home, despite being HUGE favorites. (Remember that Minnesota is the team that you have tole me repeatedly is one of the worst in al of CFB)>.


Again, not an assumption that NIU is viewed as a better team than Illinois now.

_________________