I just think they suck. I realize that isn't intelligent criticism, but in some cases- like this one- it's sufficient. Seriously, they're self-indulgent, and worse yet, self-important. There's nothing fun about them. They're the kind of band that without some critic spouting off about how great they were, no one would possibly like them. It's noise for the sake of noise.

Every guy in the band has been in far, far superior bands. I'm sure he'd laugh at this, but the best band Johnny Machine has ever been in was Precious Wax Drippings. Eleventh Dream Day isn't my cup of tea and I don't think they're anywhere near as special as some people make them out to be, but at least they have songs and can connect with a crowd during a live set. And I actually like the Zwan record better than any Smashing Pumpkins album. I realize it may not be as important as an artistic statement, but it's fun to listen to. It may come down to the fact that John McEntire, like most douchebags who attended Oberlin, is a fucking tool of the highest order.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

My favorite Eric Clapton song is 'Are You Gonna Go My Way'

_________________

I thought that was a Zeppelin song.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

I forgot to add MGMT to the list. The quantity of drugs required to like this band is out of my price range.

_________________
That's my purse! I don't know you!

Aw, hell no! MGMT rocks!

_________________
Don't take it personally.

the flatlanders!

nickel creek's even better when they're not singing. chris thile is a virtuoso.

Very amusing seeing as UFO was at it's peak in the late 70s.

Any music is better than teretestical radio's propensity for commercials.

Lenny Kravitz = 6th grade lyrics

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I can understand all that, but I disagree. While no, there isn't anything fun about Tortoise, there's no fun intended. I can't get on board with calling TNT "noise for the sake of noise," because there are some genuinely beautiful moments on that album. As for critical reception, I haven't read enough people's thoughts on Tortoise to let that affect my perception of them. I eat up ambient post-rock bullshit without persuasion, but I can see how others would get caught in Pitchfork groupthink and call them a Relevant Band without really appreciating it.

_________________

Fair enough. You like what you like.

My view of rock and roll is that amateurism is most often a virtue. And this is a problem I often ran into with bandmates. As they became progressively more accomplished at playing their instruments, nearly all of them began looking inward rather than outward. Rather than playing being a means to communicate with others as it had been at the start, it became a statement about themselves that no one much cared about, with the possible exception of some like-minded musicians who really more interested in what they were capable of themselves.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for competence- or even virtuosity- in rock and roll. But I am saying that it's an extremely rare person who can successfully combine the two.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

^^^^
This

Newer sappy Aerosmith is a button pusher for me as well as much of overplayed Loop stuff (sans Doors and Zeppelin...never tire of them).

Also, just about all overplayed Pop/Hip Hop garbage (Kid Rock, etc.) Not really a big Eminem fan, but I kinda dig that Rihanna/Eminem song for some reason.

_________________
-"God is great. Beer is good. And People are crazy!"

Interesting that you say this about rock. That's how I feel about jazz. When I was in high school, our big band would be the opening act for DePaul's. We'd play some Ellington charts, and then they'd engage in an hour of public musical dick-measuring. Every solo was just a series of scale runs. Their technical prowess was undeniable, but I never felt a thing listening to them play. Seems like lots of jazz musicians, left unchecked, can quickly devolve into just showing how fast they can run scales over a bunch of extended chords. Even a "statement about themselves," as you put it, would be preferable to the advertisements for themselves that they engaged in. Kind of Blue taught us nothing.

I guess I consider rock enough of a big tent that there's room for visceral amateurism, rehearsed professionalism, and everything in between, but bad soulless jazz seems to get in the way of the good stuff.

_________________

Why hasn't anyone added Ke$ha to the list

You have to go out of your way to actually hear them, but ICP can still vanish off the face of the earth and they can take the jugglers with them.

_________________
That's my purse! I don't know you!

I think rock at its best is about straining against limitations. There are a lot of drummers more proficient than Meg White, but none of them would be greater in the White Stripes than she is. Her limitations and the way the band works around them is what the White Stripes are all about. I'm not saying that I can't appreciate technical proficiency, but I don't believe it is necessary for great rock and roll and it's often a hindrance.

Growing up in Evanston in the 70s I had a lot of hippie teachers. I can remember our class singing "Make Your Own Kind of Music". At least I think that's the title. "Make your own kind of music. Sing your own kind of song. Make your own kind of music. Even if nobody else sings along." I'm sure Mariah or Xtina could sing a version of it that would send chills up and down your spine, but it wouldn't be greater than Paul Westerberg's version where he's reaching for the high notes and can't quite get there.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

That is what made Punk so refreshing is that is was more important what you where playing and what it was about instead of how you where playing it.

_________________
When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Post-punk > punk

_________________

we have a winrar. holy shit they're the chicago epicenter of that crap indiehipsterrock shit... the only good thing ever released on thrill jockey was the domestic release of mouse on mars' niun niggung.

when your record label foldout order form has a giant picture of george mikan as an artsy mascot, you know you're knee deep in the shit.

_________________

I failed to mention this before...at work Wednesday I heard Hanson on the classic rock station for the second time...if I ever see the guy that hosts that morning show, I'm going to kick him in the nuts...

Come on now, sini! Thrill Jockey has Bobby Conn, and the Catherine Irwin record wasn't bad if you like that kind of thing. Plus I'd bend Bettina Richards over right in the middle of 18th Street. Something about those deepset eyes really works for me.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

Beyonce. Please go away.

_________________
That's my purse! I don't know you!

You certainly could have come up with a better example than Meg White and the 'Stripes to make your "less is more" point...

_________________
"I'm not smiling because I thought what you said was humorous. I'm smiling because one day I know you'll be dead..."

Actually, I consider that the perfect example. You'd prefer Ginger Baker I suppose?

_________________
Don't take it personally.

Nah, I just don't think that her drumming, nor their music to be inspiring. I think better examples are Russ Kunkel or Stan Lynch or Jim Keltner. To me those guys exemplify subtlety meets inspirational beauty, albeit less "contemporary".

Of course, that's just this old dog's opinion...

_________________
"I'm not smiling because I thought what you said was humorous. I'm smiling because one day I know you'll be dead..."

If you don't find the White Stripes to be rock and roll at its best we simply have a major philosophical disagreement.

As for the session drummers you mentioned, I have no problem with any of them. But none of them would make the White Stripes greater than they already are.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

Staind, AC/DC, Beach Boys, Nickelback, Green Day, Fall Out Boy, and a lot more that I, thankfully, cannot think of right now.

_________________
-- source

Duly noted.




As an obviously huge fan, your use of the superlative "great" is appropriate to you. I would never begrudge anyone their musical taste, especially when it come to the core enjoyment and feeling of the music. Technical merit can be debated, but feel and vibe are too subjective...

_________________
"I'm not smiling because I thought what you said was humorous. I'm smiling because one day I know you'll be dead..."

I wouldn't characterize myself as a huge White Stripes fan, but I can appreciate what they do and how it fits within the genre.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

My mistake. When I hear someone reference the inability of Jim Freakin' Keltner to make a band "greater", I assume he/she is a huge fan of said band...

_________________
"I'm not smiling because I thought what you said was humorous. I'm smiling because one day I know you'll be dead..."

I'm not a U2 fan and I'm pretty sure Ronan Tynan is a "better" singer than Bono, but I don't think making the switch would make U2 greater either.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

My point wasn't whether Keltner would improve the band, my point was the use of "greater" led me to believe you were a big fan on The White Stripes...

_________________
"I'm not smiling because I thought what you said was humorous. I'm smiling because one day I know you'll be dead..."