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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:41 pm 
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spanky wrote:
Phil McCracken wrote:
Word on the street is that the Nats might be offering Cliff Lee 200 M next.

The roster in 2012 could have Lee and Strasburg 1 and 2, and Werth and that young punk hitting 3-4, and they will still finish 4th in the division.

Is Strasburg going to learn to pitch lefty? He's done. He will be pitching towels the rest of his life.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:41 pm 
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spanky wrote:
The roster in 2012 could have Lee and Strasburg 1 and 2, and Werth and that young punk hitting 3-4, and they will still finish 4th in the division.


Well they would have like 50+ M committed to those four players at that point. Aren't they all Boras guys?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:53 pm 
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The Washington Nationals are denying reports of a 7 year deal for Cliff Lee. It's also being reported that the New York Yankees are actually balking about a seventh year for the free agent lefty.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:22 pm 
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SHARK wrote:
the New York Yankees are actually balking about a seventh year for the free agent lefty.


Now that's a pun.........WITH BITE!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:23 pm 
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SHARK wrote:
It's also being reported that the New York Yankees are actually balking about a seventh year for the free agent lefty.

Joe West likes this.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:04 pm 
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DLee is getting interest from....wait for it.......wait for it......the Orioles to join every other exiled former cub.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
DLee is getting interest from....wait for it.......wait for it......the Orioles to join every other exiled former cub.


Part of me hopes the Cubs resign Lee just to piss your Packer loving ass off.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:18 pm 
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Cowley reports that the Sox and Konerko have broken off talks and Kenny is meeting with his Plan B representatives.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:00 pm 
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Jeff Francoeur to the Royals

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:52 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Jeff Francoeur to the Royals


Well that move will put asses in seats at Kauffman

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:09 am 
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Rays trade SS Bartlett to Padres for 2 bullpen arms. Former Sox farmhand Adam Russell and a little known lefty.

And the big one.. Bosox ink Crawford for 7/142. Combined with the AGonz extension (7/158) thats $300M for 2 guys in a couple days.. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:52 am 
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it's about time for this bartlett move to happen. if i were the rays i would have traded him after his incredible offensive season in 2009, however, i understand that they were "all in" last year and wanted to keep the band together for one more tour before they had to break up, so now they have to trade bartlett for much-needed-bullpen-help (is ANYONE out there? wow) and are doing it likely for an all-time low in his value. i would conjecture that they either have a slick fielding shortstop in the farm system or they're convinced that sean rodriguez and/or zobrist could play it, though very likely the former. after a gangbusters spring training sean rodriguez started off the season slowly, but was a pretty damn solid bat during the 2nd half stretch run. overall, i think he's earned a chance to be the everyday 2B/SS in 2011.

btw, sean rodriguez was part of the yield that the rays got when they traded scott kazmir to the angels. you wanna talk about one of baseball's better secrets hitting the (injury?) wall and absolutely falling to utter shit? look no further than scott kazmir. he's been not just bad, but downright awful for the last year or two. a chance of scenery did him no favors.

somewhere, somehow, steve phillips is sleeping better at night not hearing the name "victor zambrano" whispered in his ear.


and now boston has gone out and said "fuck you, world" by passing on jayson werth (and really, how can you do that?) and settling for the #2 hot outfield prospect, carl crawford. the rich get richer, eh? so in a matter of days the redsox have added adrian gonzalez and his bionic shoulder and arguably one of the best all around outfielders in baseball. if jacoby ellsbury isn't a leper once again in 2011, just imagine all the speed they're going to have with him and crawford making hell... then you turn around and have gonzalez and youkilis at the corners, all-around hitter pedroia.... and i think they've still got jd drew and that kid from florida the backup OF... hermida? hell, don't they have mike cameron too? their rotation doesn't put the fear of god in my eyes, but this offense should be a thing.

with beltre, do the red sox tell david ortiz to take a walk and then have a 1B/DH rotation with gonzalez and youkilis? something tells me that even tho having beltre's D at third and something like ~60% of the offense he put up last year (beltre plays big during contract years, ask seattle how that works out) would be better for the redsox overall, but i have no idea what they owe papi and i think he's such a beloved figure if he can pull out another ~25+ HR season with his decreasing batspeed they're going to keep him around.

oh nevermind, ortiz is on the books for 12.5 mil for 2011. yeah i presume beltre is a goner. even though i noted that he's a bigtime contract-year-player, i'd still take a flier on him if i'm the whitesox... if you're going to throw all that money at dunn and konerko with the hopes that revenue at the gate is going to make up for the spending, go all the way in and get a guy who at the very least can pick it better than brent morel and, ideally, hit ~.280/25/80, or maybe even more than that. hell, actually he wasn't that bad in seattle after a miserable first year, but he still wasn't the 35+/100+ guy that seattle signed him as.

oh and jeff francoeur is amazing... how was he regarded as some "the natural" type uberprospect at one point? he's allergic to taking walks, he's notoriously streaky and he's never had the kind of consistent power that makes you go "damn". my guess is that he came up in the braves system when the braves were considered one of the upper-echelon franchises in all of baseball and schuerholz could do no wrong and etc..

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:15 am 
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Carl Crawford to the Red Sox for 7 years/142 million.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:28 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
Carl Crawford to the Red Sox for 7 years/142 million.

I was very surprised to see this signing this morning. I thought the Angels were going to be a lock for him. Look for them to do something extremely bold and out of the box now unless they panic and give Beltre alot of money for alot of years. Now the Yankees are going to do whatever it takes to "buy" Cliff Lee. Actually I wouldn't be surprised to see the Angels go after him hard now. It would take away the best pitcher from a division rival and it would all but guarantee 2 wins per playoff series.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:05 am 
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The Red Sox hilariously overpaid for Crawford. 20 million per? Obviously had to outbid the Yankees, but this is one of the many things that's broken about baseball.


By that market value, Pujols should get around 75 million per year.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:19 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Carl Crawford is like a five....fifteen tool player. I don't think he is overpaid. He brings a lot to a ballclub.

He's solid no doubt, but you really think he's in that superstar category ?? 20 million a year for him? Maybe Pujols is worth that but thats about it. 296 career average , with maybe 15 homers a year , 40 steals, doesnt walk much. I dont know, sounds like they overpaid for him

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:28 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
The Red Sox hilariously overpaid for Crawford. 20 million per? Obviously had to outbid the Yankees, but this is one of the many things that's broken about baseball.

Maybe but if you let the Yankees get him and Lee, you're toast. I agree about baseball being broken. Get a damn salary cap so small market teams can compete.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:59 am 
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johnnyfontane wrote:
Northside_Dan wrote:
The Red Sox hilariously overpaid for Crawford. 20 million per? Obviously had to outbid the Yankees, but this is one of the many things that's broken about baseball.

Maybe but if you let the Yankees get him and Lee, you're toast. I agree about baseball being broken. Get a damn salary cap so small market teams can compete.




That's the point of revenue sharing, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Whether other teams aren't spending the money they are getting (like that article about the Pirates) or just find themselves so far behind bigger market teams that they can't attract free agents to come play for them. If money is the same, you'd go play for the Yankees other than the Royals basically. So teams need to ridiculous overpay for free agents to have a shot like the Jayson Werth contract.

Crazy breakdown of the 2009 Yankees payroll
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:08 am 
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Here's an interesting comparison:

2007-2010 statistics
Player A:
.294/.350/.456
.807 OPS in 536 PA/yr.

Player B:
.302/.351/.457
.807 OPS in 608 PA/yr.


Player A makes $5MM, Player B is Crawford ($20.3MM)

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:17 am 
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Crawford gets 7yr/$142M and Werth gets 7yr/$126M. It's too bad simple Steve isn't around so he can tell us how overpaid Alex Rios is when the Sox picked up his 5yr/$58.7.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:21 am 
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Apologist wrote:
Here's an interesting comparison:

2007-2010 statistics
Player A:
.294/.350/.456
.807 OPS in 536 PA/yr.

Player B:
.302/.351/.457
.807 OPS in 608 PA/yr.


Player A makes $5MM, Player B is Crawford ($20.3MM)


Who is player A?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:22 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
johnnyfontane wrote:
Northside_Dan wrote:
The Red Sox hilariously overpaid for Crawford. 20 million per? Obviously had to outbid the Yankees, but this is one of the many things that's broken about baseball.

Maybe but if you let the Yankees get him and Lee, you're toast. I agree about baseball being broken. Get a damn salary cap so small market teams can compete.




That's the point of revenue sharing, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Whether other teams aren't spending the money they are getting (like that article about the Pirates) or just find themselves so far behind bigger market teams that they can't attract free agents to come play for them. If money is the same, you'd go play for the Yankees other than the Royals basically. So teams need to ridiculous overpay for free agents to have a shot like the Jayson Werth contract.

Crazy breakdown of the 2009 Yankees payroll
Image

$140M in revenue sharing? Holy crap. Luxury tax is an afterthought compared to that.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:45 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Marlon Byrd. Good grindy player...he is not Carl Crawford.

Player A indeed.. sorry, i got distracted in the middle of the post

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:55 am 
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How does Byrd stack up to Crawford's 19 HR / 90 RBI / 47 SBs last year?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:01 pm 
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Not too well, but it speaks to the greater point that Crawford's bat itself isn't that great.. I guess how you view this contract is how you value speed and defense... and you don't need either to play LF in Boston.

Don't get me wrong, they got a great player and they can afford the contract. At least it keeps him out of the Bronx..

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:06 pm 
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I'm more than happy with the Sox signings in comparison to what I have seen. I wouldn't have given Werth or Crawford that kind of money. Gonzalez is another story. Hey, it's not my money and only indirectly affects my team so who cares.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:06 pm 
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johnnyfontane wrote:
How does Byrd stack up to Crawford's 19 HR / 90 RBI / 47 SBs last year?


How often has he approached those first two numbers in his career?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:12 pm 
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johnnyfontane wrote:
Northside_Dan wrote:
Crazy breakdown of the 2009 Yankees payroll
Image

$140M in revenue sharing? Holy crap. Luxury tax is an afterthought compared to that.


The only number on there that I fully appreciate is the one for "post season expenses". Now that's a line item I as a Sox fan can get behind. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:27 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
johnnyfontane wrote:
How does Byrd stack up to Crawford's 19 HR / 90 RBI / 47 SBs last year?


How often has he approached those first two numbers in his career?

He was hitting leadoff prior to last year, wasn't he? Don't know where he'll hit in the Boston order, but if he hits 2 or 3 he'll come close to that.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot stove league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
At least it keeps him out of the Bronx..

From the Red Sox standpoint, that may be the most important thing.

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