fuck DLC... 98% of time it's a heaping load of horseshit.

I used to be a "hardcore gamer", why, I reckon I was more hardcore than lipid or IMU or any of y'all, but that's a different story for a different time. That said, I wanted to defend the wii in that initially I thought the controls were god-awful and some sort of a stupid gimmick (and indeed, some of the 2D mario platforming stuff where you gotta wiggle a controller is annoying) but once you get going into the Mario Galaxy games and the Zelda ones, shit, the controls are rather nice. I remember Metroid Other-M being solid too, though I can't be arsed to go through all of the Metroid Prime FPS games.

Incidentally, the most fun to be had on the Wii is online Mario Kart with the GameCube controller.... I can't fathom how/why anyone would use that dumbass steering wheel...

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No, it's not. It is for games that are played for 300+ hours like MW2 but you can make significantly more money by selling a game for $60, having someone play it for 30-50 hours, and then go spend another $60 on a new game. The replayability of MW2 is actually a curse. DLC attempts to fix that.
MW2 players buy less games because they spend so much more time playing it. A Wii player looking for 300 hours of entertainment likely has bought 2 or 3 other games once they beat the first. That's an extra $120.

DLC is an attempt to cure a problem. It's not key. In fact, game manufacturers wish they never had to use it but they opened up the floodgates when they created a game that some people were willing to play for 1,000 hours of real life time.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't know how trustworthy this site is, but it's the first one that came up in my search. http://www.vgchartz.com/

6 of the top 10 selling games in America are on the Wii. I think people buy more than just a couple Mario games and the Wii Sports.

Let's say that I bought MW2, and both DLC's and played that almost exclusively for 6 months. I gave them $90. Let's say that I bought Mario Kart, and then grew tired of that and bought Super Paper Mario. I gave them $120. I then get bored with that, and buy another game. All of a sudden I'm at $180 in the same time period in which someone else is accumulating 350 hours and $90 paid on MW2.

I also don't think Nintendo is in danger of people losing interest in their studio.
They can't beat WoW. They need to try something else. MMO's are unique types of games too. They aren't really comparable to a map pack.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

these IMU-intensive video game threads lately make me think of...

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DLC is the single most-profitable spin on gaming that the industry has introduced in many years. Accident or not, adding further content for games people already love turned out to be genius.

It seems to me that sales for Wii games are better than for any other system. That's why they are on there. I think your "Wii owners don't buy many games" theory is false.
My point is that Nintendo is doing just fine selling 3 games whereas MW2 is 1.5 games over the same period.
Let me know when MW3 is a free download. The console model is to not give away games for free. Maybe it will be one day but it's not relevant to this discussion.

Also, for the record, Turbine is offering a free version of the game. They still have a subscription system.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Tecmo Bowl, the Bears were unstoppable. Singletary would get a pick on nearly every passing down and Payton was a beast.

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It's way more complicated than that. MW2 was basically a $90 game, but cost $50 million to make according to google. If Nintendo can produce 2 games for $50 million and sell them for $120 total they are winning this battle.

Now, MW2 and Mario Kart are not really normal examples as both are extremely profitable. Very few games have ever done better than Mario Kart Wii with or without DLC's.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's not a big deal. Blu-ray players are cheap and most people who want one that badly already have one.

The cost of extra controllers is a bigger concern.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The system is going to be a bust. It is essentially repackaging the same technology with prettier pictures and a different type of controller. Not impressed.

I've never been disappointed with a Nintendo console. I don't expect it to disappoint this time.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's all yours.

They are literally trying to play catch-up in the world that they started themselves. It is kind of sad, actually, if you think about all the good things that came out of Nintendo throughout the decades.

Ugie,
Did you buy a Wii?

I know IMU didn't. Therefore, if you didn't buy a Wii I doubt that you would have bought the next generation no matter what.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The point is that you and Ugie are complaining that this is nothing new, that it's just packaging old stuff together, but when they created arguably the most revolutionary console since the original playstation you didn't buy it either.

You had a chance to buy a great Nintendo console. You didn't for some reason.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Exactly. You weren't going to buy the "sequel" to the Wii because you didn't feel the original was good enough to buy. That makes sense. Obviously a lot of other people found the original to be worth buying, and they are the ones who really matter.

It's not shocking that someone who didn't like the original Wii doesn't like the new Wii. I liked the original one and I'm looking forward to seeing this new one. I have some doubts too but I'm confident in the past history of Nintendo consoles that I'll feel buying it was worth the money.

I'm not a playstation fan, and when the next one is announced I'll likely not think it's worth buying but that's because I like xbox better.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I do own a Wii, yes.

It sounds like you want the next Nintendo to be just like a playstation. Just buy a playstation then. It's that simple.

The next Nintendo console is designed to be an updated version of the Wii. It's not your thing. There is nothing wrong with that. The only thing that is strange is that you expected it to be completely different than the wildly successful console that you think sucks.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So if the Wii U contains a high quality Zelda game in HD you'll buy it? I predict it has one.

My head is starting to spin here.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The point is not that either IMU or myself wants Nintendo to fail. In fact, it is quite the opposite. I think most people want Nintendo to be a true competitor in the HD gaming, mature title market. The original Wii was neither of those things, and based on what was presented at E3 and on the web, only half of those "wants" are being addressed.

Personally, I don't see the value in purchasing a console that requires multiple controllers to play (in some game examples) while really not providing anything different in terms of actual mechanical gameplay.

Nintendo has never done that. That's not their target demo. Microsoft and Sony dominate the mature title market, why should they try to compete in a demographic they have no chance at winning?

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I think it's a little early to say that it won't provide anything different.

It just won't be as revolutionary as the original Wii but I don't really see how they could have done that. I'm not convinced about the extra screen on the controller either.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree. In fact, the last thing I want Nintendo to do is become the same as the Xbox and Playstation. I like how it offers a unique experience. HD will be very nice but the best Nintendo series don't rely on realistic looking leaves on a tree to be successful. It never has and it never will.

Give me a few good Mario games, a good Zelda game, MarioKart, and a few more games that I can play with friends or my wife and I'll enjoy it. Most hardcore gamers can afford both a Wii U and an Xbox 720 when it comes out two years later.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They sure as heck did, at least as hardcore as you could get at the time. They carried titles that appealed to a lot more than just pre-teens an children. Of course, they were the only show in town at the time, too. Sure, games nowadays feature "mature" ratings because of language, sex, violence, etc. and have found homes at Microsoft and Sony. I just don't see why Nintendo wouldn't be able to produce the same innovative gaming experiences in more "hardcore" titles.

If Nintendo wants to stay focused on the family-natured genre, then fine. It is my opinion that they are severely limiting themselves in that regard.

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Well said, as usual.

You're comparing 8-bit titles that were not even close to the realness that HD games have today. They're hardly the same. Your point was given the proper response.

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That may have been true for the 8 bit Nintendo, but there really wasn't much competition for the 8 bit Nintendo. However, by the next generation the Sega Genesis was viewed as the more mature game system.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yet you aren't disagreeing that more mature titles were available for Nintendo players back in the day? Because games like "Friday the 13th" and "Slaughterhouse" were obviously different than "Super Mario Brothers". Go ahead and post whatever pictures you want. It doesn't make me any less correct.

I knew I was typing English. Thanks, IMU.