If they are not securely in the tourney at the end of the year, he will be fired.

Illini fans have to start worrying about losing Meyers Leonard after the season to the NBA. Just like Cody Zeller, the NBA loves to draft players like that even if they aren't totally "ready" yet. The only thing that may keep them there is how this draft class is loaded because a lot of players stayed in school because of the lockout.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I expect him to come out. I don't think he's really quite ready, but I've read some stuff where Weber has seemed frustrated with him because Leonard is buying into a lot of stuff people are telling him. Anyway, look at the turds playing center in the NBA. He might be a top five center from day one. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that he's better than Weber is making him look.

The Illini have to land some of these top guys out of Chicago. It's the state school. It has to own the state. Unlike Big Chicagoan, I don't really think the results of this season are as crucial for Weber as the recruiting. He can't let Self and Calipari waltz in and grab Parker, Hamilton, etc. And with the new AD, the Richmond fiasco, and now Head leaving, I don't think Weber is in the greatest position.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Hasn't the success of Illinois been more closely related to Peoria recruiting when they are stocked with talent?

Fans love to look at Chicago and think that is the key to the promised land. Purdue fans do it too. It's true there are some absolute studs in Chicago, but those cost a lot of money when people like Calipari is involved. The others still have a ton of baggage and may not work out and are often a bigger distraction than a great player. I guess it depends on what your definition of Chicago is. If you are counting the suburbs too, then I agree. If you are talking about the players within the city limits I understand why any coach is hesitant to enter that mess. I don't think Illinois wants to be that dirty, and since they aren't Kentucky or Ohio State, they can't get away with things with a slap on the wrist from the NCAA.

I do think it's amazing how few players from the city of Chicago end up at Big Ten universities. Proviso and others produce a lot but you'd think for a supposed great high school basketball town that the Big Ten would be stocked with them. That makes it even more amazing that DePaul can't land any of them either.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Weber has been able to get the "best of the rest" from Chicago lately. I think Weber tries to recruit 3-4 year players instead of 1-2 year players which is why he loses out on kids like Jabari Parker.

Weber's last three recruiting classes have been top rated, so he needs to start showing results. As JORR said about Leonard, Weber isn't making him look as good as he is. I think everyone realizes that which is why Weber could be gone if they do not waltz into the tourney this year.

As for Leonard, physically is far superior to any big man in the NCAA right now. He could bulk up, but his athleticism is unheard of (especially for a white guy). However, I believe he needs one more year to work on his basketball sense. He makes a lot of really bad mistakes. That, coupled with needing to bulk up to be able to bang in the NBA, I think he comes back for one more season. He will be an All-American and the number 1 pick in the draft, possibly, if he does.

I agree with a lot of what you said there and in this era quite a few of the kind of guys I'm talking about are "one and done" anyway. But I think what's as important as the actual players themselves is the perception that your program is THE Program in the state. Just like Ohio State doesn't want that top fullback from Cincinnati going to Michigan, even though he might be the fourth guy on the Buckeyes depth chart. That's why Richmond was important for the Illini, regardless of the way it turned out. It showed Weber could recruit with the big guys and keep a top guy in-state.

Generally, when I talk about "Chicago" with regard to high school players I mean the major conferences in the Chicago area- the Public and Catholic Leagues as well as the Central Suburban, SICA, etc. It just so happens that the Public League is currently loaded. The Red South is really strong.

Illinois has always dominated recruiting downstate. Wayne McClain has had a lot to do with that in recent years, but Illinois has always been on the top of the list for the raw-boned farm boys from places like Effingham or Marion anyway.

DePaul rebuilt its program in the late seventies with Chicago area players including a lot of Public League guys. It was a disaster for DePaul when they alienated the Public coaches and Illinois once again had a shot at the top players. I think that golden age for DePaul was a perfect storm that probably can't be duplicated. The Bulls were horrible and Chicago was starving for a winner. There were lots of Chicago guys like me that went to other schools but were fans of DePaul basketball.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The problem with the idea of 'having to land top Chicago recruits' is unlike football, you don't have 85 scholarships just to maintain your stronghold. Football you can afford to miss a lot more in terms of recruits. You can't do that in basketball.

True. And although Illinois has always been decent basketball school, it isn't like Ohio State and Michigan in football or Indiana, Kentucky, and Kansas in hoops. But that's all the more reason when guys like Rose or Parker are right in your backyard, you have to be able to land them at least sometimes.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You want Illinois to get into the paying players game?

If Calipari is recruiting a player you know that it's going to cost a few duffel bags worth of "stuff" in order to compete.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'd guess Illinois has always been in that game, though not to the same degree as Calipari. I don't think Jimmy Collins and Deon Thomas were innocent, even though I still hate Bruce Pearl.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Illinois doesn't box out for shit. And they make some of the dumbest turnovers I have ever seen.

Man, Illinois is bad. Just bad.

I don't get Weber. Maniscalco is his main guy for the first ten games and now he doesn't play at all. I'm all for cutting down his minutes during the Big 10 schedule, especially against the top teams. But this kind of game is exactly when you need a guy like him. He isn't going to blow his cool.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

BLOCKED!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I ended up catching the second half of this last night. Maddening to watch this team. I can't
vouch for the first half but that must have been painful to watch. The first 10 minutes of the
2nd half Illinois looked real good and then it became an ugly seesaw battle the last 10 or so.
I have no idea how Shurna plays big time basketball with that release. That is where junior
high kids heave it from, he must have a super quick release because I don't see how his shots
don't get blocked more often. As for Illinois Bertrand was a nice surprise and it appears Egwu
had an effective 1st half but didn't touch the floor the 2nd half. Not sure what that was all about.
Paul had his usual up and down game. A lot of stupid turnovers but plays some pretty mean D
and usually has to take on the toughest guys in the league. Also makes a lot of great moves to
the hoop but doesn't finish enough of them. Leonard seems to be making some strides with his
agressiveness offensively but still lacks the toughness we need. I saw him make a great turnaround
one hander in the 2nd half. I'd like to see more of that. Overall they were lucky to get out with a win.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

They have a lot of trouble getting him the ball.

And I don't know if Maniscalco is hurt or something, but how could he not be in there at the end when NU was going to be fouling? I have no illusions about what Maniscalco is as a player, but there is a place for him on this team. He shouldn't be playing 35 minutes, but he shouldn't get zero either. Especially in a game like that.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I noticed the trouble feeding the ball into Leonard and you could see he was getting pissed. I
haven't watched enough games or read enough on Maniscalco to know what the deal is there.
Bertrand has been playing some good ball but why you wouldn't at least rotate the other guy in
there for even 5 or 6 minutes a game to give someone a breather will likely hurt them later. I
guess I thought this team was stronger when they were playing cream puffs and rotating in 10 or
11 guys a game. Now it appears they only play 7 or 8 max. They are gonna be real tired come
end of February.

_________________
Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

The problem with Maniscalo is that he's a Missouri Valley player trying to play in the Big Ten.

Maniscalco is injured. Same ankle he sat out with last year.

I know that. That's why he shouldn't be playing 35 minutes a game. He can't guard those types of players. But there's certainly a role for him on this team. He has the kind of toughness most of their other guys seem to lack. He's older and more experienced. I would think when your young guards are throwing the ball all over the place and turning it over with abandon, Maniscalco could come in and calm the team down. He can certainly shoot free throws as well as anyone on the team. I would think you'd want both him and Bertrand on the floor at the end when protecting a lead.

But BC says he's hurt, so I guess the point is moot.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

And what good ever came out of St pat's High School? Shamrocks Suck!

Oh, it's one a dem Nortwes' side beefs! Len Bertolini lives!!!!!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Moment of silence for my alma mater Holy Cross......

learned his game on the tough streets of Sauganash...take that OKC

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Maniscalco out again this weekend.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-01-05/illinois-sam-maniscalo-out-with-ankle-problems

DJ Richardson may not play this weekend after hurting his wrist against NU. Henry will get his minutes.

Tracy Abrams needs to be willing to shoot the ball.

Illinois is a very bad basketball team. Weber should/will be fired at the end of this season.

I don't think this is a terrible team. I like them better than last year's version. I came way from nearly every game wanting to punch Davis and Tisdale in their faces.

You and I agree that Weber isn't making the most of Leonard. That is definitely a problem. But I see a bigger problem with trying to replace Weber. You'll either get a guy kind of like him who probably isn't even as good, or you'll get a young sharpie who is using the job as a stepping stone.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Weber needs to change his style to adapt to his players. The apprehension on the court is readily apparent which leads to the poor play. He needs to open it up and use their talent.