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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:37 pm 
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Agreed. But how are you suppose to get the truth unless somebody questions everything?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:38 pm 
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It's not just Alex Jones. There is plenty out there. Some from reputable websites that the mainstream media won't cover or question.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:38 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
So how bout that coffee shop bomb in Iraq? 27 dead?


If it wasn't a bomb, it would have been sunscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:41 pm 
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The kid might actually be unaware of his brother's support group. Or it could be a lie to protect the group in this country.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:52 pm 
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Beardown wrote:
Distraction? Where? You can choose to believe government official statements if you wish. What it does is force people to think. Hopefully reputable journalists that will look into it. Maybe even honest politicians. Nothing wrong with that. There is enough noise on the internet that somebody is actually going to investigate this. Be it reputable journalist or a senate committee.

We're gonna get the truth. I think there will be hearings with the FBI and CIA to figure this out. That wouldn't have happened if this thing occurred before the internet.


If it was not for people not accepting the govt line in the JFK assassination there never would have been the House Select Committee on Assassinations that forced the govt to admit that there was more than one person shooting in Dealy Plaza that day.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:27 pm 
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I also questions these leaks. C'mon. This is FBI one one one with him. Shouldn't be any leaks unless the FBI wants leaks. The FBI releasing that it's just the brothers alone, saves the FBI's ass. Cuz it means they weren't getting radicalized by outside sources while on FBI watch.

No reason for leaks here. Unless the FBI wants leaks to serve their purpose or save their ass.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:34 pm 
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I want this kid to talk, I want answers. These two guys blew up an 8 year old.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:37 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:

I feel you but the Taliban was really a creation of the Pakastani ISI, was it not? They still support them to this day, I would even go as far as to say they are an appendage.


I know more about the CIA than I do the ISI in this case, but I've reached out to a friend who specializes in this stuff to see what I can dig up for you in terms of ISI support during the 1980s. For some secondary literature on CIA financing, check out this obituary of a leading congressman who is described as a "member of the House budget subcommittee that dealt with secret funding for the CIA," (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obitu ... 98180.html) and this 2003 Time article about the Soviet war in Afghanistan (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 92,00.html)

To the extent that American and Pakistani national interests intersected on Afghanistan during the Cold War, it's not unreasonable to suggest ISI complicity in the financing of the fighters who'd eventually push the Soviets out. Arguably, any Amrerican ally during the Cold War had an interest in pushing the Soviets out of Afghanistan, which explains support for groups we'd eventually begin to call extremists. In current times, I don't know for sure about ISI and the Taliban, but it wouldn't be a surprise: the US is pinning its hopes on the Pakistani civilian government, while Pakistan's intelligence and military agencies have their own agenda, and it seems plausible to suggest they're exploiting the Taliban and its offshoots to further part of that agenda. Hopefully I can have more for you on the ISI sometime tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:01 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:

1. With such big things like we are talking about, even being an indirect or small part of the causation is still a BIG DEAL;

2. Yes, I would on one hand feel more comfortable if the state of today's hate organizations were in fact due to unintended consequences, however a few questions:

A. How would they make the same mistakes so many times?;

B. What is the connection between such events and the people who benefited from them?

C. Are any such benefits reactionary, which one could just chalk up to slick business, or would they be considered as more in the realm of insider-trading type moves which are done with advanced knowledge of otherwise negative consequences?

3. On the other hand, If we passed the good guy part of the test noted above, I would feel a bit uneasy knowing that our supposedly adept operatives could fuck something up so bad and so many times;

4. If we somehow found out that any of the above was, in fact, intentional, it would be devastating information. Something like that will never be allowed to be discovered. It would change the fabric of the whole world like a world-sized tornado. The public reaction would probably be worse than any of our scariest disasters in that I think EVERYONE would feel it personally (i.e. when other stuff happens, you usually externalize it as a defense/coping/comforting mechanism); and

5. I dearly appreciate your candor and willing discourse (second time I used that word today), so I don't wish to push you to address anything that would make you uncomfortable, but how about my question regarding the likely origins of the apparently-recent modern day heinous tactics (i.e. strap-n-go, etc.) of these groups? Is it truly recent? If so, when and how (which events) do you set the onset (i.e. anything more specific than just "Post WWI"?), and can you speculate as to how and why it has it evolved to the current levels of inhumanity and brutality?.


I think I understand what you're saying but wanted to make sure before I responded. Are you sort of wondering if the creation of unsavory groups by intelligence agencies is intentional and, if so, who ultimately benefits from their actions and why? Is that right?

I hope I'm reading you right, and do correct me if I'm wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:08 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:

I feel you but the Taliban was really a creation of the Pakastani ISI, was it not? They still support them to this day, I would even go as far as to say they are an appendage.


I know more about the CIA than I do the ISI in this case, but I've reached out to a friend who specializes in this stuff to see what I can dig up for you in terms of ISI support during the 1980s. For some secondary literature on CIA financing, check out this obituary of a leading congressman who is described as a "member of the House budget subcommittee that dealt with secret funding for the CIA," (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obitu ... 98180.html) and this 2003 Time article about the Soviet war in Afghanistan (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 92,00.html)

To the extent that American and Pakistani national interests intersected on Afghanistan during the Cold War, it's not unreasonable to suggest ISI complicity in the financing of the fighters who'd eventually push the Soviets out. Arguably, any Amrerican ally during the Cold War had an interest in pushing the Soviets out of Afghanistan, which explains support for groups we'd eventually begin to call extremists. In current times, I don't know for sure about ISI and the Taliban, but it wouldn't be a surprise: the US is pinning its hopes on the Pakistani civilian government, while Pakistan's intelligence and military agencies have their own agenda, and it seems plausible to suggest they're exploiting the Taliban and its offshoots to further part of that agenda. Hopefully I can have more for you on the ISI sometime tomorrow.


From my readings and such the Taliban was fostered in the administered tribal regions during the war as that is where the Afghan refugees were fleeing to safety. Many were radicalized, organized and such, they wouldn't really become "The Taliban" until the early 90's when they began to fight the Northern Alliance. I'm saying the CIA didn't directly fund "The Taliban" during the 80's because they really didn't exist as an organized entity but that they did fund some of those that would become not only "The Taliban" but also the Northern Alliance. It wasn't just the CIA funding and arming the Mujaheddin during that period, many nations were in on it....Egypt, Israel, Britain, France, China etc. etc. etc.

Anyways, after the Soviet withdrawal every one else evacuated and left behind that pesky power vacuum that would be filled by you know who and their ISI handlers. Pakistan really wanted some strategic depth, it seems.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:23 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
So how bout that coffee shop bomb in Iraq? 27 dead?


dunno, haven't tuned in to Alex Jones to hear about it yet.

Anyways I'm pretty sure that Boston isn't in Iraq.

No, Boston is not in Iraq

But its a little perspective.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:55 am 
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chaspoppcap wrote:

If it was not for people not accepting the govt line in the JFK assassination there never would have been the House Select Committee on Assassinations that forced the govt to admit that there was more than one person shooting in Dealy Plaza that day.

:scratch:

When the hell did this happen?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:01 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:

If it was not for people not accepting the govt line in the JFK assassination there never would have been the House Select Committee on Assassinations that forced the govt to admit that there was more than one person shooting in Dealy Plaza that day.

:scratch:

When the hell did this happen?

:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:03 am 
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Beardown wrote:
Distraction? Where? You can choose to believe government official statements if you wish. What it does is force people to think. Hopefully reputable journalists that will look into it. Maybe even honest politicians. Nothing wrong with that. There is enough noise on the internet that somebody is actually going to investigate this. Be it reputable journalist or a senate committee.

We're gonna get the truth. I think there will be hearings with the FBI and CIA to figure this out. That wouldn't have happened if this thing occurred before the internet.


Right after we get the Bengzhai truth right?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:04 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
So how bout that coffee shop bomb in Iraq? 27 dead?


dunno, haven't tuned in to Alex Jones to hear about it yet.

Anyways I'm pretty sure that Boston isn't in Iraq.

No, Boston is not in Iraq

But its a little perspective.


Harrumph!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:52 am 
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Way to go Muslims.

Muslims helped foil alleged Canada train bomb plot

Trains originating in the U.S. were among the possible targets, NBC News has learned. Authorities say there was never any imminent danger to the public. NBC's Stephanie Gosk reports.

By Ian Johnston, Staff Writer, NBC News

Muslims helped foil an alleged al Qaeda-backed plot to blow up a rail line between the United States and Canada, according to a community leader and police.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police said Monday that it had arrested Chiheb Esseghaier, of Montreal, and Raed Jaser, of Toronto, over what sources said was a plan to derail a train from the United States after it had crossed the border.

Esseghaier, 30, a doctoral student, and Jaser, 35, were due to appear in court on Tuesday for a bail hearing. They are not Canadian citizens; authorities have not revealed their nationalities.

Several sources told NBCNewYork.com that Amtrak trains out of New York City may have been scouted by the suspects.

Muhammad Robert Heft, a Muslim community leader in the Scarborough area of Canada's biggest city, told the Toronto Sun newspaper that he expected ordinary Muslims would experience problems because of the allegations.

But he said Muslims had helped the security services detain the suspects.

Canadian authorities hold a press conference after two men were arrested and charged in an alleged "al Qaeda-supported" plot to blow up a U.S.-Canada rain line.

"There is going to be backlash," Heft told the Sun. "But I want to reiterate. Who was the one who tipped the RCMP off? It was our community."

"We have to be on the front lines," he said. "To either nip it in the bud in the very beginning or co-operate with authorities so they can be brought to justice."

"In our community we may look a little different, but in our hearts we love Canada. It's our country. It's our tribe," he added. "We want safety for all Canadians regardless of their religion."

Police also said a tip from the Muslim community had helped their year-long investigation, Reuters reported.

"Had this plot been carried out, it would have resulted in innocent people being killed or seriously injured," Royal Canadian Mounted Police’s Assistant Commissioner James Malizia told reporters.

"The individuals were receiving support from al Qaeda elements located in Iran," he said.

Malizia said the RCMP believed the two had the capacity and intent to carry out the attack, but there was no imminent threat to the public, passengers, or infrastructure, Reuters reported.

U.S. officials said the attack would have targeted a rail line between New York and Toronto, a route that travels along the Hudson Valley into New York wine country and enters Canada near Niagara Falls.

New York-area commuters like Jason Rivers told NBCNewYork.com that they took the threat seriously.

"I'm always concerned," Rivers said at Penn Station. "I live in New Jersey, but every day I come through here. You just never know."
"Unfortunately, the country's a little bit on edge about what's going on, so I think it's natural that everybody be concerned," another commuter Michael Milch said.

Some security experts were surprised by the alleged link to al Qaeda factions in Iran, whose Shiite rulers have a generally hostile attitude toward the Sunni militant movement. Reuters explained:

Iran did host some senior al Qaeda figures under a form of house arrest in the years following the September 11 attacks, but there has been little to no evidence to date of joint attempts to execute violence against the West.

However, a U.S. government source said Iran is home to a little-known network of alleged al Qaeda fixers and "facilitators" based in the Iranian city of Zahedan, very close to Iran's borders with both Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The source said the operatives serve as go-betweens, travel agents and financial intermediaries for al Qaeda operatives and cells operating in Pakistan and moving through the area.

They do not operate under the protection of the Iranian government, which periodically launches crackdowns on the al Qaeda elements, though at other times appears to turn a blind eye to them.
Reuters contributed to this report.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:03 am 
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pittmike wrote:

Right after we get the Bengzhai truth right?


It's time to let this talking point die. 11 embassies were attacked while Bush was president, and I don't recall this outrage from the right then.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:06 am 
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Chus wrote:
pittmike wrote:

Right after we get the Bengzhai truth right?


It's time to let this talking point die. 11 embassies were attacked while Bush was president, and I don't recall this outrage from the right then.


That's the best reason for people to keep talking about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:10 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Chus wrote:
pittmike wrote:

Right after we get the Bengzhai truth right?


It's time to let this talking point die. 11 embassies were attacked while Bush was president, and I don't recall this outrage from the right then.


That's the best reason for people to keep talking about it.


I hear you, but not in the way it was framed. Rand Paul called it "the greatest tragedy since 9/11". I guess the lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan don't count, in his world.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:15 am 
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Chus wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Chus wrote:
pittmike wrote:

Right after we get the Bengzhai truth right?


It's time to let this talking point die. 11 embassies were attacked while Bush was president, and I don't recall this outrage from the right then.


That's the best reason for people to keep talking about it.


I hear you, but not in the way it was framed. Rand Paul called it "the greatest tragedy since 9/11". I guess the lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan don't count, in his world.



It's sad that our level of distrust now runs this deep.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:32 am 
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Chus wrote:
pittmike wrote:

Right after we get the Bengzhai truth right?


It's time to let this talking point die. 11 embassies were attacked while Bush was president, and I don't recall this outrage from the right then.



First time I think I used it. It wasn't an Obama slam as much as a laugh at getting the truth from Washington.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:39 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Chus wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Chus wrote:

It's time to let this talking point die. 11 embassies were attacked while Bush was president, and I don't recall this outrage from the right then.


That's the best reason for people to keep talking about it.


I hear you, but not in the way it was framed. Rand Paul called it "the greatest tragedy since 9/11". I guess the lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan don't count, in his world.



It's sad that our level of distrust now runs this deep.


Everyone should have a healthy level of distrust for our gov't. They have earned that.

But, for an elected official, especially one with presidential aspirations, to make that ridiculous of a partisan attack, is completely irresponsible, and does nothing to help political discourse in this country.

Only the most ignorant, partisan hacks would say that Benghazi was worse than what happened for years in Iraq.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:20 pm 
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If he did this over nothing more than some ambiguous complaint against Afghanistan/Iraq, I think capital punishment is warranted.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:35 pm 
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I don't believe any of these leaks.

Like I said, this is the FBI. So what is it? 5 or 6 interrogators at his bed side? And we're getting leaks? No. Not from FBI. Leaks only come if they want leaks. Just like all of the false leaks we got from them all last week. If they want this interrogation info out there, it can't be trusted.

It makes perfect sense that the FBI would want the narrative to be he and his brother did this on their own with no affiliation with anybody. That can't be true. No way. It's a good story for the FBI and/or CIA because it saves their ass. Because he was one of theirs and they didn't see it. Or perhaps something even worse than that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Possibility it's a legit ploy too. You would want any other affiliates of the brothers to think they are safe. You want those affiliates to think that the FBI thinks it's just the two brothers. Then you monitor their activities while they feel safe.

Legit or not, you can't trust the info from these leaks.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Gonna be hard to put that pillow over his face now, Beardown:



WCVB-TV Boston ‏@WCVB 9m
#Breaking: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, #BostonBoning suspect, upgraded to fair condition, per hospital.

What's on your mind?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Keeping Score wrote:
Gonna be hard to put that pillow over his face now, Beardown:



WCVB-TV Boston ‏@WCVB 9m
#Breaking: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, #BostonBoning suspect, upgraded to fair condition, per hospital.

What's on your mind?



I just copy and paste Darko. I have no thoughts.

Keeping MartyFeldmansGoodEye...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Lies. All lies to cushion and expand the implementation of internet restrictions and


:scratch:

So.......not the "NRA/gun" thing anymore? It seems like you are just going with the "This is part of a larger conspiracy so the govrnment can ________" theory.

I get the mistrust of the gov thing. But when you keep changing your narrative, it gives creedence to those who just dismiss allegations of government secrets as the ramblings of crazy people.

I know they (govornment) are behind some shit that they don't want us to know about, but you keep changing the "why" portion of this alleged conspiracy...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:19 pm 
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I didn't hear this from anybody today. Just saw it come across on twitter @ #BostonMarathon.

The Christian Science Monitor reports that House and Senate intelligence committees will be asking senior FBI officials about a possible intelligence failure at closed hearings today.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/0423/Was-Boston-Marathon-bombing-a-US-intelligence-failure


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Let's wait until the lawyer speaks on behalf of the bomber. Guarantee you he'll have something different to say.

There is no way it's gonna be this easy.


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