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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:35 am 
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Here is a local guy reporting it that way:


Jeff Dickerson ‏@ESPNChiBears 16h
Cutler will have the first two years of the deal ($38 million) fully guaranteed on the 3rd day of the 2014 NFL league year - March 14.

Jeff Dickerson ‏@ESPNChiBears 16h
$10 million of Cutler's third year salary ($16 million) becomes guaranteed in March, 2015, the other $6 million in March 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:44 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
Not every deal includes the option to reshuffle however and whenever they please. That's good because it gives them more flexibility than usual. Can't really argue that part of it.
Read the article. The article says the Bears do this with most contracts. It doesn't matter for the player. He gets paid the same.

Basically, it just lets them choose when the cap hit happens.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Basically, it just lets them choose when the cap hit happens.


Correct. Which is good for the team.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:46 am 
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Not having the contract it seems the guarantees are in the form of a roster bonus or the equivalent of him being on the team as NFL year starts every March. If that is right they are only committed really to this year and next. Would be dumb but they could change their mind and cut him March 1 this year with no issue.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:47 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
It's $54mm guaranteed for injury. But not for skill/cap. There are different kinds of guaranteed money.


It's highly unlikely they cut him due to skill, but with the way it was reported, it's possible.
So it's not $54 million guaranteed then.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:48 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
It's $54mm guaranteed for injury. But not for skill/cap. There are different kinds of guaranteed money.


It's highly unlikely they cut him due to skill, but with the way it was reported, it's possible.
So it's not $54 million guaranteed then.


It's $54mm guaranteed for injury. It's not $54mm fully guaranteed.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:49 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Basically, it just lets them choose when the cap hit happens.


Correct. Which is good for the team.
Yeah, but as I said this is done pretty much all the time. It doesn't change anything. It's just paperwork.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:50 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
It's $54mm guaranteed for injury. But not for skill/cap. There are different kinds of guaranteed money.


It's highly unlikely they cut him due to skill, but with the way it was reported, it's possible.
So it's not $54 million guaranteed then.


It's $54mm guaranteed for injury. It's not $54mm fully guaranteed.
Yeah, as I said. Thanks for restating it though.

So, if Cutler doesn't have a career ending injury it's a 2 year deal.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Basically, it just lets them choose when the cap hit happens.


Correct. Which is good for the team.
Yeah, but as I said this is done pretty much all the time. It doesn't change anything. It's just paperwork.


I'm not suggesting this makes it a good deal, or is some vast salary cap invention that will give the Bears a prize. Just saying it's really good. It will help with re-signing Marshall and others, and will give them flexibility in-season if they need to go out and spend more money due to injuries, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:51 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

So, if Cutler doesn't have a career ending injury it's a 2 year deal.


Doesn't have to be career ending. They simply can not cut him due to any injury.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:54 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
I'm not suggesting this makes it a good deal, or is some vast salary cap invention that will give the Bears a prize. Just saying it's really good. It will help with re-signing Marshall and others, and will give them flexibility in-season if they need to go out and spend more money due to injuries, etc.
Read the thoughts in this thread. People were acting like this suddenly makes this a better deal. It's assumed that all deals have this. There is no reason not to. The player doesn't care if he gets the same money at the same time as a roster bonus or as salary. Calling it "team friendly" indicates that it is somehow different.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:56 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
I'm not suggesting this makes it a good deal, or is some vast salary cap invention that will give the Bears a prize. Just saying it's really good. It will help with re-signing Marshall and others, and will give them flexibility in-season if they need to go out and spend more money due to injuries, etc.
Read the thoughts in this thread. People were acting like this suddenly makes this a better deal. It's assumed that all deals have this. There is no reason not to. The player doesn't care if he gets the same money at the same time as a roster bonus or as salary. Calling it "team friendly" indicates that it is somehow different.


:lol: You fixate on the most bizarre things. How many current contracts on the Bears are structured like this, outside of those signed this year? Curious. I've never heard this before. I remember Peppers having to "agree" to restructure his.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more time on this part. It's important that their biggest contract is flexible. Period. Nothing to really discuss here.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:01 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
:lol: You fixate on the most bizarre things. How many current contracts on the Bears are structured like this, outside of those signed this year? Curious. I've never heard this before. I remember Peppers having to "agree" to restructure his.

Quote:
The automatic conversion clause also exists in the other recent contracts the Bears have signed, sources told the Tribune. It does not mean the players would accept a pay cut, it means bookkeeping would be altered for purposes of the salary cap.


It's just a way to structure contracts now. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I'm not fixating on it. I'm saying it doesn't matter. It's simply a procedural thing.

I'm pretty sure that Peppers "agreement" to restructure is so he doesn't get cut and lose non-guaranteed money. If this contract ever got to year 6 for Cutler he'd have to "agree" to the same since those years look to be all but impossible to pay.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:25 am 
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The flexibility is nice


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:30 am 
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the absolute worst part of modern fandom is being concerned with financials of your team

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:31 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
the absolute worst part of modern fandom is being concerned with financials of your team

Agreed


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:33 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
the absolute worst part of modern fandom is being concerned with financials of your team

Agreed


Define what you mean by financials. For me, the salary cap is interesting because it significantly affects the players they can get. I don't know why that's a bad thing or the worst part of fandom.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:34 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
the absolute worst part of modern fandom is being concerned with financials of your team
I'd say what is worse is rooting for wife beaters, racists, and pretty terrible human beings simply because they may help your team win a playoff game.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:36 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
the absolute worst part of modern fandom is being concerned with financials of your team

Agreed


Define what you mean by financials. For me, the salary cap is interesting because it significantly affects the players they can get. I don't know why that's a bad thing or the worst part of fandom.

I liked Baseball Stars.

I used to like reading and trying to analyze contracts. Im just a little burned out on it. This Cutler discussion is horrible. I mean Im still reading it, but it's pretty boring.

And the NBA stuff is ridiculous too.

Thank god MLB doesnt have a cap


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:37 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
the absolute worst part of modern fandom is being concerned with financials of your team
I'd say what is worse is rooting for wife beaters, racists, and pretty terrible human beings simply because they may help your team win a playoff game.

Well, were not gonna root for the beatings!


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:39 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
the absolute worst part of modern fandom is being concerned with financials of your team


I can't agree with that. As a fan, I always want the best players to play. But what often happens is the players who were signed to stupid, guaranteed, long-term contracts end up on the field way longer than they should.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:43 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
This Cutler discussion is horrible. I mean Im still reading it, but it's pretty boring.



People are so entrenched. It's OK to concede some minor point. It doesn't mean that your whole position is changing.

It's that mentality that triples the page count in threads like this.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:45 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
This Cutler discussion is horrible. I mean Im still reading it, but it's pretty boring.



People are so entrenched. It's OK to concede some minor point. It doesn't mean that your whole position is changing.

It's that mentality that triples the page count in threads like this.


Think of how many pages in here were wasted by people crying because it was a 5 year deal and a 3 year deal with $54mm fully guaranteed. :lol:

Makes it hard to admit it's ok for the flexibility of the contract to be seen positively.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:53 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
People are so entrenched. It's OK to concede some minor point. It doesn't mean that your whole position is changing.
It being a "team friendly" deal isn't a minor point. It's basically the whole discussion.

I don't know if you've paid attention but it's already been conceded that a 3 year deal is much better than a 5 year deal. I'm still skeptical that this is really a 2 year deal like it is being portrayed. I'd be very surprised if it was that easy for them to be free and clear from Cutler after year 2.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:57 am 
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Flexible or not he's not worth close to this type of money.

He's a middle of the road qb that is overvauled because we haven't had a decent qb in decades.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:57 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
People are so entrenched. It's OK to concede some minor point. It doesn't mean that your whole position is changing.
It being a "team friendly" deal isn't a minor point. It's basically the whole discussion.

I don't know if you've paid attention but it's already been conceded that a 3 year deal is much better than a 5 year deal. I'm still skeptical that this is really a 2 year deal like it is being portrayed. I'd be very surprised if it was that easy for them to be free and clear from Cutler after year 2.


You just spent a page arguing that the ability to move the cap $$ isn't any big deal because you assumed already that any contract would have it.

Even though the evidence were quotes that said "most contracts" and only "recent contracts" were structured this way. It could matter to Cutler because if he did not grant this now, he could use it as a bargaining chip later. He allowed it. It's a minor point that makes it more team-friendly.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:59 am 
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Chris_in_joliet wrote:
Flexible or not he's not worth close to this type of money.

He's a middle of the road qb that is overvauled because we haven't had a decent qb in decades.


He would have been paid this by someone so by default he is worth the money. THis is the market for QBs.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:02 am 
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Let someone else make this mistake than. Should have cut their losses and moved on.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:04 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Chris_in_joliet wrote:
Flexible or not he's not worth close to this type of money.

He's a middle of the road qb that is overvauled because we haven't had a decent qb in decades.


He would have been paid this by someone so by default he is worth the money. THis is the market for QBs.


Maybe right, but still speculation. His body of work shows he is a mediocre, often injured QB who cannot win a big game against a decent team. This contract is about desperation and hope.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:05 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
You just spent a page arguing that the ability to move the cap $$ isn't any big deal because you assumed already that any contract would have it.
It isn't. That's just a fact. It doesn't make it more or less team friendly. The Bears simply did the contract in a way that the player sees no difference but they have a chance to play more salary cap games if they need it.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Even though the evidence were quotes that said "most contracts" and only "recent contracts" were structured this way. It could matter to Cutler because if he did not grant this now, he could use it as a bargaining chip later. He allowed it. It's a minor point that makes it more team-friendly.
That's how these all work. The players don't care because it's simply different classifications of the exact same thing. It doesn't change anything. It's like if your company decided your pay would either be called salary or "Dr. K appreciation money". You still get the same check at the same time.

Cutler didn't give up any leverage unless Cutler wanted to intentionally mess up their cap situation for no gain of his own and all the Bears would have to do is say "Fine, here is less money".

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