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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:45 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
this kid comes up looking scared to death, looks at 4 pitches and strikes out. As he's walking back to the bench his Mom is literally giving him a standing ovation telling him how hard he tried and what a good job he did. Fuck that. I'm not saying boo your son, but he stood there and hoped he would walk. He didn't try at all. The bat didn't leave his shoulder for a practice swing either. But stand up and cheer his effort? No. I don't care if he missed by a foot with each swing, at least that would be putting forth an effort.
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That kid hates baseball and is being forced to play, which is always a recipe for success


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:46 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Manziel's Hottie.


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Ryan Miller still got the edge IMO.

Probably going to come down to the tramp stamp. Ill keep researching.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:48 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Travel baseball is the only way for your son to improve.

Ok, Scoredenis.

That is completely ridiculous statement. It's on par with saying Football is the only way to learn discipline



denisdman wrote:
On a typical in house team, about three kids have a clue how to pitch and field.

Wrong again. Really Scoreheading now. Maybe your league sucks. That doesnt mean every league everywhere sucks.


Anyway, I think travelling before age 12 is dumb anyway. The way it was in the 80's and prior was fine. You play in your little league from 7-11 and around 12-13 everyone knows who the serious kids are and arent and you build your one travelling team.

Overzealous parents (not speaking of anyone here) dont want to play by that system because their kid is good, dammit!


Tons of sweeping, overly general statements there, RogersParkBernSTINE.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:48 am 
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Thanks for taking one for the team Rogue.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:49 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
this kid comes up looking scared to death, looks at 4 pitches and strikes out. As he's walking back to the bench his Mom is literally giving him a standing ovation telling him how hard he tried and what a good job he did. Fuck that. I'm not saying boo your son, but he stood there and hoped he would walk. He didn't try at all. The bat didn't leave his shoulder for a practice swing either. But stand up and cheer his effort? No. I don't care if he missed by a foot with each swing, at least that would be putting forth an effort.
.

That kid hates baseball and is being forced to play, which is always a recipe for success

RPB, how do you know so much about this, you sure seem damn sure that you are right in all of your responses?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:50 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Travel baseball is the only way for your son to improve. On a typical in house team, about three kids have a clue how to pitch and field. If you want your son to stand at the plate and get walked each game, then in house baseball is for you. In travel, your son is challenged against very good players. The travel parents work with their kids, so you have engaged players across the diamond.

My son played travel and in house each of the last two years. It was a nightmare. The travel was fun and competitive, while in house was a joke. If I have to see one more kid step out of the box as soon as the ball is pitched, I am going to kill myself. And this was 11 year olds. This year we are on a travel only club team for 12u. Much better baseball.



But what is your goal, really? If you're that serious about a kid playing baseball, you have to get him out of the Midwest.



My goal for both my children is to reach their individual potential with anything they enjoy, athletic and academic. There's no need for us to move out of the Midwest to be competitive. We practice and train indoors once the weather is bad. Besides, you can't reasonably play baseball games 12 months out of the year because your arm would die.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:51 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
this kid comes up looking scared to death, looks at 4 pitches and strikes out. As he's walking back to the bench his Mom is literally giving him a standing ovation telling him how hard he tried and what a good job he did. Fuck that. I'm not saying boo your son, but he stood there and hoped he would walk. He didn't try at all. The bat didn't leave his shoulder for a practice swing either. But stand up and cheer his effort? No. I don't care if he missed by a foot with each swing, at least that would be putting forth an effort.



He was trying to walk. Old School Frank obviously doesn't appreciate the modern metric of OBP.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:53 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Travel baseball is the only way for your son to improve. On a typical in house team, about three kids have a clue how to pitch and field. If you want your son to stand at the plate and get walked each game, then in house baseball is for you. In travel, your son is challenged against very good players. The travel parents work with their kids, so you have engaged players across the diamond.

My son played travel and in house each of the last two years. It was a nightmare. The travel was fun and competitive, while in house was a joke. If I have to see one more kid step out of the box as soon as the ball is pitched, I am going to kill myself. And this was 11 year olds. This year we are on a travel only club team for 12u. Much better baseball.



But what is your goal, really? If you're that serious about a kid playing baseball, you have to get him out of the Midwest.



My goal for both my children is to reach their individual potential with anything they enjoy, athletic and academic. There's no need for us to move out of the Midwest to be competitive. We practice and train indoors once the weather is bad. Besides, you can't reasonably play baseball games 12 months out of the year because your arm would die.



There's a fine line between helping your kid with an activity he or she enjoys and becoming a mini-Marv Marinovich. I know a guy whose dad took him out to California from Park Ridge to play ball. The kid did make the big leagues so maybe it was worth it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:54 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Travel baseball is the only way for your son to improve.

Ok, Scoredenis.

That is completely ridiculous statement. It's on par with saying Football is the only way to learn discipline



denisdman wrote:
On a typical in house team, about three kids have a clue how to pitch and field.

Wrong again. Really Scoreheading now. Maybe your league sucks. That doesnt mean every league everywhere sucks.


Anyway, I think travelling before age 12 is dumb anyway. The way it was in the 80's and prior was fine. You play in your little league from 7-11 and around 12-13 everyone knows who the serious kids are and arent and you build your one travelling team.

Overzealous parents (not speaking of anyone here) dont want to play by that system because their kid is good, dammit!


These are my opinions based on five years of in house play, both softball and baseball. I am ok if you disagree.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:58 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
FloydGondolli wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
FloydGondolli wrote:
Talking baseball in April is about as pointless as talking football in April.
Yeah. Talking about a game that ended less than 12 hours ago in pointless.


When there's another game in 7 hours, and 160 to go after that, it is pretty much pointless.

So with that reasoning , when would it be ok to talk baseball Floyd? Playoffs? sini was right, you're coming off very Bernsteinish in this.

There's plenty of fucking time to talk about it when it's going on, even on the radio broadcast. There's so little action in a baseball game, that a baseball broadcast is essentially 3 hours of talking baseball.

No need to ruin sports talk with that bullshit too.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:59 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
THAT is the big problem. These elitist "travel teams" started by parents who want to will their children to greatness like an USSR-Era Olympic Trainer.

This bullshit is what is killing baseball and making it less accessible to most. When we were kids, the only ones who got to "travel" were the BEST OF THE BEST, who excelled in in-house REC LEAGUE teams, got SELECTED to try out for ALL-STAR TEAMS (no fucking open tryouts), and got to TRAVEL with THE BEST.

The state of baseball is fucked because of elitism and this TRAVEL bullshit.


I'm calling bullshit on this entire post. EVERY youth sport has teams filled with kids & parents trying "to will their children to greatness like an USSR-Era Olympic Trainer", if that's how you see it. :roll:

But question is this: Ever heard of AAU basketball? 8-13yr old football teams traveling down south to play in tournaments? Spaulding, Bernstein & others talking biddy hockey)? Soccer? Golf or tennis? Where in this country are there not youth sports dominated by elite level "travel" programs/

Just because it's baseball, the same easy, tired, whorish & wrong arguments come out. Repeat them enough (like Fox News) and a substantial (lazy) percentage will accept them as gospel. What was good for baseball in the 30's, 40's & 50's (with higher level Pony, American Legion ball, etc.) and has been duplicated in every other sport but now is just "bad" for baseball. Why? Because YOU say so. :wink: Perhaps your wrongheaded position is in part because you do not understand, nor appreciate the difference between travel & elite level travel ball.

Elite level teams may have (for practical legal reasons) tryouts, but trust me, those teams are pre-selected. Frankly, with rare exceptions it's fairly clear by the age of 8,9-10 who has it and who doesn't. There is very little in common with "elite" level teams and in house or 80% of the glorified "travel" programs. There is no way that a regular travel team (think any team with Alsip, Palos, Plainfield, Tinley Park, Oak Forest or Homer Glen in their name) will win more than 10% of its games vs. true elite level travel teams. One level actually plays baseball, the others give the parents to come to the park, drink, hand out snacks and socialize.

That having been said, travel ball is still seemingly fun for the kids, definitely better than in-house, and whatever else those parents make of it. However, the state of baseball is "fucked" more often because certain helicopter parents take the fun out of the (non-scored) games, wet nurse their kids into false beliefs about their talent and then sour on the game with their less talented kids when they aren't qualified to move up the ladder. (or get embarrassed by elite teams)

But that's just my opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


There's a fine line between helping your kid with an activity he or she enjoys and becoming a mini-Marv Marinovich. I know a guy whose dad took him out to California from Park Ridge to play ball. The kid did make the big leagues so maybe it was worth it.


I am not trying to get my kid to the big leagues. I am much more worried about getting into a good college. That aside, I view baseball as one of the best ways to build a tight bond between me and my son. We go to games together, we watch games every night, and we play catch regularly. One benefit of travel ball is that we take road trips, to the Dells, Louisville, and Des Moines in the past year and spend time together. I have built a very close bond with my son because we both love baseball. Therefore, regardless with what happens, we both win.

I'll defer to folks on a lot of topics, but when it comes to baseball, it is one of my passions. Ok to disagree, but I am coming from an informed perspective.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:01 pm 
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RR wow. Well said. :cheers:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:07 pm 
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MattInTheCrown wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
FloydGondolli wrote:
When there's another game in 7 hours, and 160 to go after that, it is pretty much pointless.

So with that reasoning , when would it be ok to talk baseball Floyd? Playoffs? sini was right, you're coming off very Bernsteinish in this.

There's plenty of fucking time to talk about it when it's going on, even on the radio broadcast. There's so little action in a baseball game, that a baseball broadcast is essentially 3 hours of talking baseball.

No need to ruin sports talk with that bullshit too.

So Matt and Floyd both believe that local sports radio should not talk baseball during baseball season when theres 2 local pro sports teams but NFL talk is ok 5 months away from kickoff. Wow.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:09 pm 
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Matt just really hates baseball. Nothing to see here.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:10 pm 
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I tune in this time of year specifically for baseball talk. Something new everyday, but then again, I am a baseball junkie.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:10 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
MattInTheCrown wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
FloydGondolli wrote:
When there's another game in 7 hours, and 160 to go after that, it is pretty much pointless.

So with that reasoning , when would it be ok to talk baseball Floyd? Playoffs? sini was right, you're coming off very Bernsteinish in this.

There's plenty of fucking time to talk about it when it's going on, even on the radio broadcast. There's so little action in a baseball game, that a baseball broadcast is essentially 3 hours of talking baseball.

No need to ruin sports talk with that bullshit too.

So Matt and Floyd both believe that local sports radio should not talk baseball during baseball season when theres 2 local pro sports teams but NFL talk is ok 5 months away from kickoff. Wow.



There's actually far less action in a football game anyway. Something like 8-10 actual minutes during a 3 hour game. But football fans love commercials. They wait all year to excitedly analyze them the day after the Super Bowl.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
There's actually far less action in a football game anyway. Something like 8-10 actual minutes during a 3 hour game. But football fans love commercials. They wait all year to excitedly analyze them the day after the Super Bowl.

No.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:14 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Travel baseball is the only way for your son to improve.

Ok, Scoredenis.

That is completely ridiculous statement. It's on par with saying Football is the only way to learn discipline



denisdman wrote:
On a typical in house team, about three kids have a clue how to pitch and field.

Wrong again. Really Scoreheading now. Maybe your league sucks. That doesnt mean every league everywhere sucks.


Anyway, I think travelling before age 12 is dumb anyway. The way it was in the 80's and prior was fine. You play in your little league from 7-11 and around 12-13 everyone knows who the serious kids are and arent and you build your one travelling team.

Overzealous parents (not speaking of anyone here) dont want to play by that system because their kid is good, dammit!


RPB, there are so many levels of wrong here it's almost frightening. My son's league didn't suck. Actually we've won the state tournament 3x in the last 6 years and finished 2nd twice. However, the in house games generally blew. Dennis isn't that far off from what I've seen in 3 different leagues in the last 10 years, there isn't real baseball being played in most in house little league games. To throw multiple no hitters, or lead your league in homers in an in house league isn't a big deal.

To legitimately have hope of getting better, kids now have to play travel ball. The levels of competition are night and day different. (and I'm not even talking elite level ball that starts at 9-10 years old)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:17 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Manziel's Hottie.


Image

Ryan Miller still got the edge IMO.


No...and for so many reasons

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:18 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
There's actually far less action in a football game anyway. Something like 8-10 actual minutes during a 3 hour game. But football fans love commercials. They wait all year to excitedly analyze them the day after the Super Bowl.

No.



No what? That's an absolute fact.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:19 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
There's actually far less action in a football game anyway. Something like 8-10 actual minutes during a 3 hour game. But football fans love commercials. They wait all year to excitedly analyze them the day after the Super Bowl.

No.


He's actually pretty dead on. Figure 100/120 plays per game @ on average a generous 6 seconds per play - 600/720 seconds (10-12 minutes). And at least 12-18 of those plays are spiking the ball, punting, and touchbacks.

Hell, the sheeple that blindly follow the NFL watch the combine & draft which have even less action. But don't seem to notice.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:23 pm 
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I'm talking about the stupid strawman that football fans watch the Super Bowl for the commercials.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:24 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I am not trying to get my kid to the big leagues. I am much more worried about getting into a good college. That aside, I view baseball as one of the best ways to build a tight bond between me and my son. We go to games together, we watch games every night, and we play catch regularly. One benefit of travel ball is that we take road trips, to the Dells, Louisville, and Des Moines in the past year and spend time together. I have built a very close bond with my son because we both love baseball. Therefore, regardless with what happens, we both win.

I'll defer to folks on a lot of topics, but when it comes to baseball, it is one of my passions. Ok to disagree, but I am coming from an informed perspective.


:salut:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:25 pm 
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Beyond the competitiveness of the games, there are another differences. Travel teams have pretty solid coaches, while in house coaching is often suspect. Also, travel teams practices together in the off season even renting out facilities while the weather is bad. In house teams have a couple of spring practices, and then generally just play games. They might mix in a practice here and there, but it is not an emphasis. Travel is about teaching skills and various aspects of the game like holding runners on, double plays, hitting cut off men, etc.

Since I want my son to progress as a player, travel is a better option.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:28 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
RR wow. Well said. :cheers:


He said your kid's program is deluding itself and is about a half step above a park district league.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Hell, the sheeple that blindly follow the NFL watch the combine & draft which have even less action. But don't seem to notice.

I don't understand the motivation behind this criticism. The whole "My sport is better than your sport because __________" is the epitome of stupid sports talk.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Travel baseball is the only way for your son to improve.

Ok, Scoredenis.

That is completely ridiculous statement. It's on par with saying Football is the only way to learn discipline



denisdman wrote:
On a typical in house team, about three kids have a clue how to pitch and field.

Wrong again. Really Scoreheading now. Maybe your league sucks. That doesnt mean every league everywhere sucks.


Anyway, I think travelling before age 12 is dumb anyway. The way it was in the 80's and prior was fine. You play in your little league from 7-11 and around 12-13 everyone knows who the serious kids are and arent and you build your one travelling team.

Overzealous parents (not speaking of anyone here) dont want to play by that system because their kid is good, dammit!


RPB, there are so many levels of wrong here it's almost frightening. My son's league didn't suck. Actually we've won the state tournament 3x in the last 6 years and finished 2nd twice. However, the in house games generally blew. Dennis isn't that far off from what I've seen in 3 different leagues in the last 10 years, there isn't real baseball being played in most in house little league games. To throw multiple no hitters, or lead your league in homers in an in house league isn't a big deal.

To legitimately have hope of getting better, kids now have to play travel ball. The levels of competition are night and day different. (and I'm not even talking elite level ball that starts at 9-10 years old)


Florida/Arizona/California teams are saying the same thing about your elite program

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:31 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Travel baseball is the only way for your son to improve.

Ok, Scoredenis.

That is completely ridiculous statement. It's on par with saying Football is the only way to learn discipline



denisdman wrote:
On a typical in house team, about three kids have a clue how to pitch and field.

Wrong again. Really Scoreheading now. Maybe your league sucks. That doesnt mean every league everywhere sucks.


Anyway, I think travelling before age 12 is dumb anyway. The way it was in the 80's and prior was fine. You play in your little league from 7-11 and around 12-13 everyone knows who the serious kids are and arent and you build your one travelling team.

Overzealous parents (not speaking of anyone here) dont want to play by that system because their kid is good, dammit!


Tons of sweeping, overly general statements there, RogersParkBernSTINE.

Actually no, there's no generalizations there. Denis generalized and I said his experience is not the same as everyone else's.

Then I gave my personal opinion and labeled it as such.

The last statement is true of some parents, I didnt say all.


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