I know you aren't. I just find it a far more interesting discussion than Sox and Cub fans arguing fruitlessly about whether Rizzo is "better" than Abreu.

I would think the same guys that mock a pitcher's win as a stat with any value should all be ridiculing the concept that the order of the hitters is in anyway important other than the attempt to make sure the best guys bat the most.

But that's a viewpoint that- like a whole lot of SABRmetric arguments- is based on the idea that "clutch" play is non-existent and that runs randomly fall where they will. The same basic argument that views a pitcher's performance as completely unrelated to the game in which it occurred.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I saw one guy go O fer in the last big game.

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Elections have consequences.

I wasn't making a statement about Cub fans. Just bernstein. More evidence of which team he actually roots for.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That, and the brooms that will be used later this evening

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Clutch exists. That is not even a debate.

Anytime SABR guys talk clutch they come off incredibly foolish.

I dont know why its so difficult for people to take these stats for what they are. A different look.


So many people are in the "they're worthless" or "they are sent directly by god"

Unlike David Ortiz in his Redbird days

I remember the Wrigley bros running back and forth down Waveland with brooms in 04. Then Carlos Lee did what he always did and hit a homer to tie it in the 9th (Yes, off LaTroy)


Luckily the sox bullpen walked in the winning run in the bottom of the 9th


The Cubs Sox thing is so stupid (in a good way)

Touche

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Elections have consequences.

It's "FAR" Superior, Brick losing his trolling fastball.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Right. And there's a reason batting orders are set up the way they are. They're not an attempt to score the most possible runs. They're an attempt to score runs at the right time. I mean, if you really want to score the most overall runs, there is no doubt your best hitter should lead off the game. Every model you can make will show that to be true. But when I'm chasing two in the ninth, I'd like Abreu to come up with a man on. So I don't really want him batting behind Jordan Danks.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The season is still early.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

To say nothing of the psychology involved with each player in relation to where he bats.


Im surprised a large voice (Bill James or someone like him) hasnt come out with a major essay or book on the misuse or over reliance on these stats

Then Stone cant be correct, you have once again struck down your own statement. I can't continue to support your efforts if you are going to make it this hard.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Correct.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Well, Bill James is a funny guy. He likes working those numbers, but he's still a fan. He's not a hardhead like the guys who use his numbers to bludgeon others as idiots.

Bill James hates Dick Allen for some reason. But every statistic and all the "Bill James numbers" suggest that Allen should have been a Hall of Famer a long time ago. Bill fucking hates him and ignores his own research when it comes to his opinion of the guy. That's a baseball conversation. Maybe bernstein can get him on and yell at him.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Unfortunately, I am stuck with the over the top definition provided by a few Cubs fans on here and I am attempting to stick with that.

I'm just glad to know that there is only one player in all of MLB who is far superior to Abreu(if you require 100 point difference) and two(if you require a 96 point difference).

What an amazing deal by Rick Hahn!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Over the top

I showed you with examples yesterday that 100 works. But that doesnt set up well for you, so you call it over the top.


A .50 point difference usually means there are like 5 or 6 players (in all of MLB) in between the two. Do you believe that to be far superior?

Do you really think there is only one player in all of MLB that is far superior to Abreu?


That isn't true, unless we are talking about the very top.

Abreu is 10th, Rizzo is 27th right now.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Thru a little over a month? Sounds about right.

That isn't true, unless we are talking about the very top.

Abreu is 10th, Rizzo is 27th right now.[/quote]
That is not a 50 point difference. Its 66.

Where is Hank Scorpio to laugh at this?

Abreu is 10th.
.893 would put you in 26th place.

So, I'll amend it to that. One spot difference.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Here is a "Rizzo" stat:

Cubs have one of the best leadoff men in baseball this season.
He gets on & can steal.


RIZZO HAS 16 FRICKIN RBI's!!

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Im starting to think you honestly arent aware.

So, you believe that the difference between 100 and 96 is comparable to 50 and 66?


One is 4% difference.

The other is a 34% difference.

Hank was correct to laugh at you yesterday.

.269 with RISP

.308 with runners on base

Wrong. God you're an idiot sometimes.

Since the first week of the season, Bonifacio has an OBP of .280 and an OPS of .559. And he has only 6 SB with 3 CS in that same time frame.

He has been one of the worst leadoff men since the first week of the season.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Your point was that there are only 5 or 6 players in between .50

I pointed out that the difference is 17, and then you had me knock it down to 16.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 10th best hitter in baseball is normally far superior to the 26th.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I guess I was thrown off by the fact his average above .300 has been maintained ALL SEASON!
He must be getting on somehow but that OBP of .280 IS terrible,I'll admit that. Where do you get these stats?? MLB.com?

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

You keep going out on limbs. Ill just watch people correct you and you get upset about it.


Last years 10th best was Andrew McCutchen. 26 was Evan Longoria.


Whoops

The eye test has told me Bonifacio has sucked recently.

The actual figures come from baseball reference.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

OPS matters until OPS doesn't matter I guess.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Whoops?

I would say that the 2013 NL MVP had a far superior season to Evan Longoria.

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