Yep. Add Moses Malone and Curry to the list. The face of the league has been in the Finals all but 5 years since 1980.

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Pippen was an all star and the second best player by a mile. There was a significant gap in terms of level of importance between he and Jordan. That 95 team struggled tremendously prior to Jordans arrival. A rusty Jordan instantly made them relevant. That is what you call impact.

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That's because the roster didn't have a lot of talent. They didn't replace Grant until the following season.

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Yes they were. Everyone remembers Jordan's shot but the Cavs were in place to be the NBA's next great team. Jordan singlehandedly won that series.

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Jordan killed Cleveland every chance he got. As a Bulls fan I loved it.

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It seems as though LeBron James is returning the favor. That Cleveland series and the display that Jordan put on is the sort of performance that great players are supposed to do. That Bulls team was so garbage that his supporting cast was referred to as the "Jordannaires".

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Serious about this. Hill was more gifted scorer and distributor than Pippen. Wasn't known for defense at first but became really good post injury. Aside from the body type Hill is James' closest contemporary comparison, not Pippen. Look at the stats between the three.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

I get what you're saying but Grant Hill didn't stay healthy long enough and defensively he wasn't in their league. He is one on the 2 players (Dominique being the other ) that I saw shit on Scottie pretty much every game.

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Pete Myers.

I get what Scottie is trying to say and, some 15 years after playing comes a player who plays his type of game better. If Lebron says Scottie was an influence I can believe and accept that. He is without question the most amazing combination physical specimen and exemplary game to this date.

As was Jordan when he played. The game was more physical then too. But the reason I keep Jordan as GOAT is because of how he didn't leave you bleeding and still twitching on the mat. He would rip your heart out, take a huge chunk out and spit it at your bench, and then step on the remains while stepping over you for the win.

Jordan had Scottie, and he took care of a lot of the little details that go with playing a team game. Jordan made Scottie tougher and once he was no longer flinching at Dennis Rodman he became what he became. The year that Scottie didn't have Jordan it was Pete Myers who had to pick up the slack. Pete had games where he could make shots and many more games where he couldn't.

The problem with some of the comparisons (excluding centers) is that the players mentioned were significantly shorter than Pippen and didn't have his wingspan. I was a Dennis Johnson fan when he was with Seattle, where he had a bigger impact than with the Celtics. In Boston he was one of the first "big" guards to defend the point guard. But on the wing he is small to undersized.

Pickup/playground basketball and I take doughboy (over Scottie) because his ass was too much to deal with and that made him physically too much and too quick for anybody.

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DRINK BƎTTƎR. @theRIPH

Grant Hill was a better ball handler than James. In terms of statistics their numbers were about the same. A healthy Grant Hill was better than Pippen. Hill probably not as good defensively as James early in his career but the latter day Hill was a top notch defender. James defense is overrated in my opinion. Hill was not the passer that James was either.

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LeBron James is not defender that Pippen was. I argued this on B&B a few yrs ago. If you want to see defense look at what Iggy, Butler, Leonard and Tony Allen did to LeBron James while guarding him. That's defense. Iggy shut LeBron James down and that's why he won MVP. I never see LeBron James do that. He never guards primary scorers. Pippen and all other great defenders have done that. That's where you earn your rep.

A few possessions here and there means nothing. That's why I laugh at the Derrick Rose stuff. That was for a few possesions. I never see him lock guys up as Iggy did to him in the finals.

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As a former LeBron hater I can't recall seeing him lock up a guy for the entire game. It's possible that he did. He's always been asked to do so much that it would be difficult to accomplish. I somewhat agree with you.

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I think the point Pip is making is he was the fore runner. James has said growing up he patterned his game after Pip's. Hill came after Pip. And yes, Pip is one of the greatest on ball defenders to ever play. Ever. He didn't say he was better than James. But you can see Scottie's game in Jame's game. It's the right comp.

Who is Doughboy? Dennis Johnson?

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He's a superior version that's less successful.

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Mark Aquirre. In a pickup/playground game he was unbelievable with his speed and size.

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DRINK BƎTTƎR. @theRIPH

Then again, Magic was no slouch either. On second thought, my first pick would be Buck.

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DRINK BƎTTƎR. @theRIPH

Mark Aguirre particularly the Mavs version was one of the most underrated/under appreciated players of his era. That franchise was garbage and became contenders after he arrived. Their downward spiral occurred after they traded him. He was the epitome of a" tough cover".

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after the injuries

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Yes. Injuries are part of who a guy is, but before Harper got hurt I don't see how you could say Pippen was a better player. Harper had a real good run at the beginning of his career.

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Don't take it personally.

The biggest deficiency in Scottie Pippen's game was always his inability to create off the dribble. If you are going to be the "guy" you have to be able to do that. I always believed that to be the reason that Phil called the play for Kukoc and not he. Kukoc was a better shot creator than Pippen and that's why the play was called for him.

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Stop it!

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It was 1.8 seconds left. There was no shot creating. You get the ball to the guy that carried your team. Scottie could create his own shot. He just wasn't a good shooter.

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I watched Pippen's career from the time he entered to the time he left I can't remember a time in which he hit a game winner or even what you would consider a big shot. He played with Jordan and that had a lot to do with it, but you figured that there would be a signature offensive moment considering all the big games he was involved in. I'm sure he hit one but it doesn't jump out at you.

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I don't think you remember how good he was in Cleveland. The guy was headed to the Hall of Fame before he got hurt. Okay, that happens to a lot of guys. But the fact is Harper was a lead go-to guy on a really good team in 1989, a premium scorer with an all around game. if you remember it different, you're remembering wrong.

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Don't take it personally.

Jordan said before Harper go hurt playing against him was like playing against a mirror. Harper was great.

Had to step away hence a previous response:



My problem with injuries and the "what if" is that we start giving more credit to what could/should/would have been. Harp was the original "Ohio" guy who became an all-star and franchise face (Clippers). Today's medecine could have made a difference post-injury.

You know: This is like a barbershop debate as to who would have, IF, and Then. Harp was the face of Clippers except he got hurt, he wasn't telegenic (stuttered) and he worked for D. Sterling. He wasn't the same Harp in his first season learning the "Triangle" , or coming off his injury.

When Jordan returned he was healthy, understood the offense, and most importantly was the big defensive guard that Pheel wanted on the point. The first three-peat featured defense from the inside out, the second featured defense from the point. Harp, Scottie, MJ could defend on the ball.

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DRINK BƎTTƎR. @theRIPH

In 1989 Ron Harper was arguably the third best 2 guard in the game. Only Jordan and Drexler were better in my opinion. Dumars was in the conversation but Harper was better.

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Of course. There's always the mystique of "what he could have been." Like I said, a player can't be separated from his injuries. I'm not going to tell you Harper's body of work is better than Scottie's. It's obviously not. But I could never say that Scottie at his best was better than Harper at his.

Back to "what might have been", it's funny. If Kershaw couldn't pitch anymore after tomorrow, his career would look a lot like Koufax's. But he'll more likely decline and probably end up looking like Johan Santana. What was going to happen next isn't usually great.

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Don't take it personally.

Ron Harper's best wasn't as good as Scottie's. Bulls fans underrate Scottie because somehow if he gets credit for being one of the all time greats it would knock Jordan down a rung or 2 and that can't happen.

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