I didn't compare Scottie to Jordan unless we are now calling LeBron Jordan.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Discrediting Scottie is definitely the issue. Jordan wasn't winning those titles alone. If Jordan's importance was a 10 then Scottie's was a 7.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I don't see it as discrediting Scottie. He was a great player. But you're coming really close to equating his importance with that of Jordan. You could plug Moncrief (among other guys) into Scottie's spot and the Bulls win those championships without missing a beat. There's no one you could plug into Jordan's spot.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm not a Pippen hater. I appreciate his contributions to the acquisition of 6 rings. I don't over value him either. Jordan is the guy that made it go. Pippen was a nice sidekick and his game complimented Jordan's. That top 50 list was made almost 20 yes ago and if done today it's debatable as to whether Pippen would be on it. I'm a Pippen fan and I could easily create a list that doesn't place him on the list.

_________________

Do the Bulls win 6 titles if they have mckey instead of pip?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I don't think you could plug anyone else in. I've never said Scottie was as equally important to the Bulls success as Jordan. Scottie wouldn't even say that. Fact is he was very important to their success and fans of Jordan like to play down his importance. There aren't many unselfish superstars.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I think you are def. Equating his value with that of Jordan.

_________________

I think you are def. equating his value with that of Jordan.

_________________

No that isn't. It's illustrating his importance and how they complimented each other. It was also pointing out how good his peers thought he was. Very few guys enjoy playing with the Jordan's and Kobe's of the world.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

No.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

pip is underrated today. dude was awesome. better than worthy.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Well, I'm not a fan of Jordan. I do recognize his greatness but I don't think he's the indisputable "greatest of all-time". You're right about Scottie's unselfishness- at least where Jordan was concerned. (He wasn't so unselfish when it came to running a play for Kukoc.) Most guys as good as Pippen wouldn't have played second fiddle so willingly.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think so.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Nas you are a sly guy. This is def. A rhetorical sleight of hand. That first yr. He avg. 20 min. A game. Didn't start any games. Brad Sellers was the starting SF. The Brad Sellers. This on a team that won 50 games but Jordan didn't win any series until Pippen arrived. Pippen was really a factor that first yr. Wasn't he?

_________________

Scottie wasn't ready yet but when he was inserted into the starting lineup (in the playoff clincher) he played great. It was clear at that point that even though he needed more seasoning he could be the guy that could help Jordan win.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I agree on that one but I bring up Mckey because Pippen is a lot closer to Mckey ability wise. Mckey was not an all time great no where near. Winning and playing with Jordan benefitted Pippin a lot more than vice versa.

_________________

If
this is the case then what did the migraine headache game of Two yrs later demonstrate?

_________________

I can't argue with that. Jordan helped Scottie mentally get to another level. I think they both got better by competing against each other in practice. They both needed each other but Jordan would have been an all time great without Scottie. He probably wouldn't be considered the greatest though. Winning changes a lot.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

He had a mental hurdle to get over. Let's not act like Jordan didn't either. He struggled with the Piston's physical style of play. Then he spent the summer in the weight room and developing his game more. That's when took off. Scottie arrived the year before they won it all.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Jordan's mental or physical toughness was never questioned. Pippen's was. I'm a Pippen fan. I appreciated his game. I think that in terms of revisionism he has benefitted from it more as time has passed. There are some who place him as Jordans equal in level of importance. If not this then it's Jordan 1 and Pippen 1A. Both are false. He was a decided No. 2 on the pecking order. It doesn't say this as a detriment to him as a player but it's necessary as a means of providing clarity.

_________________

look at that 30 for 30 about the Pistons: Michael rededicated himself physically to beating them. I think all the Bulls did. Horace and Scottie transformed their bodies from year 1 (and maybe 2). I remember seeing a picture of them standing with the strength coach before the season and the difference was obvious

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Hey, only baseball players use PEDs!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I watched the series and I remember it vividly. Jordan didn't shy away from the contact. He continued to attack the defense. He beefed up so that he would be able to better take the contact. Pippen shied away from the contact. You didn't leave that series thinking that Jordan was physically or mentally soft. He got hammered but continued to attack.

_________________

The rules and game was much different then. A defender could use both hands to "check" his opponent. There was a lot more "chippiness" then with the refs arbitrating the foul calls. There were no "Flagrant Foul" rules. From the Celtics to the Pistons, and by the time Pat Riley's Knicks emerged they fouled everyone on every posession challenging the refs to call every infraction.

Maybe the thought then was that Pippen was the weak link to be attacked. The Pippen-Xavier McDaniels-Jordan tussle in 1992 showed how things went.

http://youtu.be/DE4pu5bwdbU

_________________
DRINK BƎTTƎR. @theRIPH

it was obvious they believed they could get in Pippen's head. Rodman in particular and somewhat Laimbeer tested him constantly throughout the series. It culminated in game seven of the series.

_________________

I'd never call Jordan soft

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Me either. Pippen's mental and physical toughness was still questionable at that point. The next yr. he took the necessary step and the Bulls took off. In '90 his toughness was questionable and rightfully so.

_________________