Reliving memories of Clock & Dagger perhaps.

_________________
God is the uncaused cause of the universe. He had no beginning and has no end. He is not bound by the laws of the universe he created.

Loved the old Buffalo Bill show with Dabney Coleman.

_________________
favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

_________________
God is the uncaused cause of the universe. He had no beginning and has no end. He is not bound by the laws of the universe he created.

Kawhi Leonard owns Jimmy Butler

_________________

Aldridge owns Da Bulls

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

The real issue is Wade. This locker room cancer and all-around miscreant had the audacity to call out Hoiberg, thereby undermining "The Mayor's" efforts to coach up the rest of the squad and implement his ingenious offensive schemes . In my opinion, it's far too soon to judge whether Hoiberg is a poor coach or not, but the one thing we can conclude is that guys like Wade and Butler simply aren't team players and simply aren't capable of being centerpieces of championship teams with their poor attitudes.

I'm assuming that is a tongue in cheek post.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

by the time i turned the game on it was 17-2 spurs. i'll go out on a limb and guess that at some point the bulls got within 5 of santonio-without-the-holmes, hell maybe they even got a 2-3pt lead once.... but by the end of the game it was a comfortable double digit victory for skip bayless' san antonio spurs!

this team is all kinds of arrrghhhh/deflating to watch. first of all, jimmy considers himself to be a top-5 NBA superstar or something because the "my turn" possessions hearken something that makes you think of kobe.... except kobe had a better shot, right? altho let's take a look at the #s...

Jimmy Butler 24.3 PT .456 of 16.7 FG .891 of 8.9 FT .343 of 3.3 3P 6.5/1.6 RB 4.23 AS 0.33 BL 1.60 ST 2.00 TO 1.83 PF 36.3 MN 30/30 GS

Dwyane Wade 19.2 PT .442 of 16.1 FG .813 of 5.0 FT .325 of 2.9 3P 4.2/1.1 RB 3.61 AS 0.68 BL 1.46 ST 2.07 TO 2.00 PF 30.8 MN 28/28 GS

on the surface those two statlines look pretty solid.... obviously nobody expects d-wade to turn back the clock ~10yrs and be a legit ~top[3-5] NBA superstar anymore... but it's kinda sad to watch old man dwyane still have those moments of brilliance where he jukes a defender or 2 out of their sneakers and cuts to the lane going as hard as he can... and ends up emphatically group-blocked by 2/+ people while hoping that he still gets his "star calls" that keep the NBA right[-on-futon] and proper MOVING!

if anything, you'd think that if wade can get a hold of m-jeff (IIRC isn't wade one of the big guys who rocks "Team Jordan" gear.... you know. "mikes" for the rest of us? thereyago!) and figure out what michael did to develop his stone-cold jumper from the ~2nd half of his career. if d-wade or jimbo buckets can do what m-jeff did and develop a stone cold jump shot then i mean, hey, maybe you got something? outside of the obligatory "niko mirotic is the x-factor of this team. they'll basically be as good as niko mirotic is" stuff that i've said for a couple'a years, maybe if you can somehow start getting guys like jerian grant to improve (i.e. have a point guard who can hit wide open 10-15ft shots) and then you have guys like denzel valentine eventually force their way into the ass-end of the rotation and become more and more productive over time [aka "the taj gibson plan"] then you can be like

AND HEY! someone tell wade to work on a jumper in the offseason. i'll guess that he'll legit figure something out this next offseason re: improving his game in regards to his age/mileage-based limitations; as the last offseason = he didnt know where he was playing til later on in the summer, and then you gotta deal with "stupid human bullshit" like buying/renting mansions, transportation, setting up the kids in new schools.... you know, the whole 9 yards of "the human condition" that take up too much time to keep you from, example, spending 5-10hrs/day simply working on your jump shot. watching wade lately [over the last ~5 games or thereabouts] it seems like there's a good handful of opportunities each and every game for dwyane to step up and drill an in-[the-]rhythm[-of-the-offense] ~17foot jumper from the corner of the key... WORK ON YOUR JUMPSHOT DUMBASS! LOOK AT WHAT M-JEFF DID IN THE 2ND HALF OF HIS CAREER AND TRY TO DO THAT!

ah well, i better STFU and end this TLDR [that will inexorably /thread the joint since this game's been over for ~10 hours or something] before i start going "hey whatever happened to that one kid bobby portis? you know, the power froward who was suppsoed to have a positive midrange game without his back to the basket 100% of the time? GOOD HUSTLE-N-EFFORT!? where is that guy?!



uhhh... dude. that's it... i'm good. "keep it" - papa goff. i aint want none of whatever the fuck he's selling (and man, idk how y'all do with colloquialisms re: drugs/drug-highs.... but this dude right here looks straight up ZOOTED, you know what i'm saying?! =)

hasta

# sir burnedoutonthebulls, esq.

_________________

So a coach will make Mirotic smarter and better at defense?

Will he make McDermott a better defender?

Will a better coach make Wade younger?

How about make Butler a real not fake franchise player?

Will he make Rondo a shooter?

Will he give Taj Gibson an offensive game?

LaMarcus Aldridge started the game 11 for 11. That isn't Hoiberg's fault.

Jimmy Butler everyone's favorite franchise guy had about 10 points until the game was out of reach. Thoroughly outplayed by Kawhi Leonard once again.

What would a better coach exactly do again to elevate this non talented team again?

Most people on here wanted it to be Jimmy's team. Well it is.

They also wanted it Taj to start. Well he has and since each has been the case the Bulls haven't been shit. This dates back to last season. Those two players were thoroughly outplayed last night. That isn't on Hoiberg.

This isn't about schemes and "pace" and "space". This is about guys not being good enough.

_________________

It's not as black and white as you put it. With the experience on this team, they should easily be a top 5 EC team. Instead they're languishing at around 10th place. Underperforming will be Hoiberg's legacy.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

In the summer I thought they were .500 once the season started it looked like they were better. I was wrong about thinking they were better than that.

It is pretty black and white. Butler isn't a top ten player and people on here need to stop with that garbage. In the 20-25 range.

Once Wade began playing like a 34 year old player with 45 year old legs this team was cooked.

Gibson isn't a starter on a good team.
It's easy to bash Hoiberg. It is really easy for people that really loved Thibs to do. The fact is the great Thibs is 9-21 and his team was just blown out once again last night.

Hoiberg may not be a good coach but the fact is that GarPax haven't really given him anything to work with.

_________________

Again where did Thibs come from? For someone who thinks he sucks he's sure gotten good at getting inside your head!

Like I said a team with this much experience and knowhow should be at worst a low to mid playoff seed. It's early so there's still time but missing the playoffs yet again will confirm Hoiberg's ineptitude.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The Hoiberg hate is inexplicably tied to love of Thibs. It's time to be honest about that.

What would a better coach do to make this team better? If anyone can explain that maybe it would help. The "experts" had this team to be about where they are now actually.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1788 ... gs-2016-17

_________________

That isn't what you said during the summer. You said The Wolves would be better than the Bulls out the gate and I distinctly remember you saying that they would be garbage. Experience didn't seem to matter much in your observation then. What changed?

_________________

I definitely remember saying the wolves will be better. Still stand by that. It's not looking good for me record wise but I'll still own it. I remember saying Hoiberg is garbage and I definitely stand by that.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Hoiberg may be a crappy coach Vegan but he is performing about where the prognosticators thought they would be though. There are some things that are distressing about the way he coaches i.e. allowing Mirotic to jack thirty footers with impunity basically. Know he benched him for a game or two but it should have lasted longer. He also allows Butler and Wade to call their own number far too often. Especially Butler. The young players haven't developed under him either. Maybe they aren't really good but who knows for sure.

Garpax need to be whacked for assembling such a mediocre team.

_________________

Butler wanted to be a THIBEE until jarrys guys made some promises........ Being 'the man' was more important and FRED doesnt have the chops to say elsewhere!!!

in the end, not too bad as JERRY will always have his guys and THE KING still in east anywAY.

of course MANY will say it's great because we all no JERRY is a great owner????

_________________
yeah, It's Big Brane!

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Player development is generally a coach's responsibility, yes. We know Hoiberg doesn't give a shit about defense though, so he'll obviously do nothing about those guys' defense and you'll continue to pretend they've peaked out at that position.

Butler was far and away the best player on a 50-win team. I really don't give a crap about whether he's a "real" or "fake" franchise player, but it seems every single excuse you trot out for Hoiberg's record applies even more to Butler. It seems the teammates are talented when it comes to Butler's failures however but they're talentless when the poor coach's poor results under discussion.

It sure as hell is. Hoiberg inexplicably had Gibson guarding Gasol and Lopez guarding Aldridge for much of the first half. As noted above though, he's utterly clueless when it comes to that side of the ball.
You said in the offseason that Hoiberg had to get the wins and make the playoffs. I said with these signings, I do not want to read any more excuses for him, especially when it comes to lacking guys since he signed off on two aging veterans who will want the ball in their hands at all times as much as Butler. Shockingly enough, you're back here making excuses for Fred yet again.

Fred Hoiberg is two games under with a team that was predicted to be 2 games under. A professional coach should not have to teach guys how to trap a pick and roll. A professional coach should not have to tell a professional player that a 25 to 30 foot shot is a bad shot.

Pau Gasol was the best player on that 50 win team not Jimmy Butler. Led the league in double doubles and was a hall of Famer who that season played like one.

Since it has undisputedly been Jimmy's team (start of last season) the team has been mediocre. He is a good player but he isn't a franchise player. Maybe he put Lopez on Aldrich because Aldrich has Fucked Taj up repeatedly over the years.

Hoiberg may be a problem but he is about 5-6 on the list. It's interesting that known coach killer Rondo said there is nothing wrong with the schemes. Players fault. No one will listen to him because the only guys that get traction are the ones that want to bash Hoiberg.

Is it Hoiberg's fault that Taj can't play starters minutes? Is it his fault that Taj tends to get his shot blocked a lot and doesn't really have an offensive yet he is the "best" they have at the position.

If you are comfortable with Butler as the franchise player then be comfortable with the Bulls being a mediocre team. People think it's a knock but it isnt. He is a good player though not close to being a franchise player.

As far as making the playoffs he should make it. If he doesn't then that is a problem. Currently they are in the 9th spot. They are right there. People are acting like this is an underachieving team. They aren't they are about where the experts thought they'd be.

_________________

Butler isn't a franchise player
Butler also isn't at fault for the Bulls struggles
Taj is a serviceable starting PF
Bulls don't have a bench
Hoiberg isn't tops on the list of people responsible for the Bulls struggles
Gar Forman should be fired immediately
Bulls assistants should be fired
Bulls will make the playoffs

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

It is interesting to hear the Butler rebuttals. I'm not blaming him other than it was important for him to be "the guy". If he is they won't be good.

Just remember the MANY Carmelo Anthony arguments and juxtapose them with Butler defenses. Quite interesting how the spin job works in all of this. Just Saying.

_________________

Marshmelo was a superstar. He was a top 5 player at one point. He's rightfully held to a different standard than Butler. Butler is an all star that has star potential. No one except Butler believes he could ever be a superstar.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

How important is a franchise player? Boogie,Unibrow,Wall,Lillard....won't name them all but they are on the outside looking in...so how
important is a franchise player?

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

They're important but it is more important to get the right one. Even then you have to put something around them.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Extremely important. In the last 35 years the only team to win without one was the 2004 Pistons.

_________________

I'd argue the 2014 Spurs didn't have a franchise player at the time.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

My Duncan bias is huge but at that point he wasn't the same guy. He still played at a high level but not a franchise. Think Leonard may have been but he hadn't been anointed yet. I thought about including them too.

_________________

Yeah I agree. Duncan was far from a franchise player at the time, and Leonard at the time was just settling in as a player. The 2011 Mavs might be closer to the Spurs and 2004 Pistons than we'd like to think - Dirk at the time was great but more toward the end of his prime then right in the middle of it.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You just hit on three I thought about. Dirk showed that he had one more run in him and he put them on his back. I still considered him a franchise guy because of that but yeah it was close.

_________________