And nary a 3pt shot was made.

Their needs? They need young building blocks. Okafor would give them a potentially elite building block for pennies. What do you think you can get for any combination of Mirotic/Valentine/McDermott? A late first round pick or some shitty contracts?

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

If his skill set is such that no one desires it then why did he go No. 3 in the draft last season? Why draft him at all? He does things that no one seeks.

This is a question I have often. Not only about this player but the NBA draft in general. I can't seem to understand how iffy the draft in the NBA is.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

What I've noticed is that it tends to hit every other year. That has been the pattern it seems for 10-12 years now. This past draft is a miss but this year should be good. Okafor''s year was a good one but Parker's was meh. Parker''s was predicted to be the best draft since Lebron''s but it hasn't worked out that way.

It is becoming increasingly tough to scout guys because they come out so early. Much easier to miss on a guy these days.

Considering how much AAU ball these kids play and how much tape is out there, I really can't understand the great number of misses.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Agreed Which floor spacing Center (sounds stupid to even use the term) has ever led a team anywhere?

This week, our ESPN Insider colleague Kevin Pelton did an analysis of Okafor’s potential based on his projections using Real Plus-Minus. Okafor came into the NBA as one of its finest low-post prospects in years. But a season and a half into his career, Okafor grades out poorly by RPM, as he does in the acronym-jumble of other advanced metrics that try to distill a player’s impact into one stat. What those composite stats are hinting at, and what’s obvious to many onlookers, is that underneath that scoring, there isn’t much to Okafor’s game.

Ordinarily, the big-bucket stats are more of a guideline than a rule. But in Okafor’s case, the concern goes a little deeper. While there are some talented big men who have found success despite those stats not thinking much of them, they have tended to excel at more than one thing. DeAndre Jordan is an elite rim protector and all-around defender, and he’s one of the league’s best targets for lobs and other feeds inside. Enes Kanter is a good inside scorer, but he’s also consistently one of the top defensive rebounders in the league.

And then there’s Okafor, who has struggled to find a secondary skill, which in today’s NBA makes life hard for a big man. Putting aside the rare passing savant like Marc Gasol, Boris Diaw or Chris Webber, a typical NBA big’s path to success tends to come from inside scoring, perimeter shooting, defense and rebounding. Okafor’s strength is down low, where he’s scoring about 88 points per 100 possessions on post-ups, according to NBA.com,3 which is about the middle of the pack for players using at least one post possession per game. That’s not eye-popping, but he has a natural presence around the rim and can occasionally put the ball on the floor and use some fluid post moves to find space for a shot. That said, no one’s going to mistake him for Anthony Davis when he tries to catch and drive.

It gets worse from there. His defensive RPM is second-to-last among 70 qualified centers, ahead of only Karl-Anthony Towns. When Okafor is on the court, Philadelphia gives up 113.8 points per 100 possessions; when he sits, that improves to 106.8, per NBAwowy.com. His defensive inadequacies are especially glaring given the play of Embiid, who’s been outstanding on defense far earlier than is typical for a frontcourt player. Okafor is still just 21 years old, so it’s possible he’ll improve, but he has a very long way to go for that to be the case.

While it may not be fair to judge Okafor’s defense just yet, his rebounding is another story. Going back to his days at Duke, Okafor has never rebounded especially well, particularly given his size. His total rebound rate (which is just the percent of available rebounds a player collects while he’s on the court) was 12.8 for the Sixers last year, and this year it’s fallen even lower to 11.6. Those are anemic numbers for a center, and ones that look even worse when you consider how he’s collecting them.

Okafor converts just 44.8 percent of his defensive rebound “chances”4 into rebounds. Among players who have played at least 15 minutes per game and 20 games this season, Okafor ranks 287th out of 294 players5, coming in ahead of just two point guards, three shooting guards and, by professional rebounding standards, a pair of NBA Fatheads someone left on the court.6
So, to recap: Okafor doesn’t do a good job of fighting for his boards, which is made worse by the fact that he isn’t in position for many in the first place.

Okafor creates 11 defensive rebound chances per 36 minutes he’s on the floor. The best rebounders in the league create about 15 chances per 36 minutes: Andre Drummond is good for 17.1, Dwight Howard for 15.6, Embiid 14.9, per NBA.com — and each of them converts those chances at a rate far, far above Okafor’s. The drop from 15 to 11 may not seem like a lot, but it’s the difference from those elite rebounders and stretch bigs, like Channing Frye (11.2) or wing players, such as Okafor’s teammate Robert Covington (10.6). Of all the knocks against Okafor, this is the one that seems the most damaging to his prospects as a franchise cornerstone.

And beyond defense, we don’t need to discuss his shooting range just yet — he’s taken just six 3-pointers in his career (none this season), and has shot 27 percent from outside 16 feet.

This from the board's big basketball mind?

Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan (didn't have range out to 3, but certainly was a threat from mid-range). Hell, even Draymond Green logs minutes at the 5, and actually does go down and guard the other team's big man at the other end.

Then you have DeMarcus Cousins, Al Horford, Anthony Davis, Karl-Anthony Towns, Kristaps Porzingis, all guys that split time at Center while stretching the floor for their team and virtually any franchise would love to have.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Without a computer screen in front of you you're in trouble talking hoops. You can continue on with the pot shots but this post is wrong on so many levels that it makes no sense to engage.


I love how guys like you can't ever talk the game withot it turning into an MIT algorithm equation

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/does-jahlil-okafor-have-a-place-in-todays-nba/

TL;DR: No.

This article's premise is silly and not true. He's basically Al Jefferson, could be better or worse but that would be who you'd compare him to. If he never gets better then obviously he won't be a very useful player long term, but this article is pretty much making the assumption he won't get better, which is absurd.

Would you be dismissing my sentiment if it happened to agree with you? The answer is no, you wouldn't. You only pull out this ambiguous "oh boy, you don't know what you're talking about, NERD" crap when you're wrong. It's the same shit fans like me had to deal with in the early-2000's with older baseball fans that refused to even consider a stats-based approach.

You were wrong incredulously asking about what floor-stretching center (even the "center" moniker is dubious in the modern NBA) has lead a team anywhere, because there have been more than a few. You know it, you just don't like to have your enormous ego checked (which you also know).

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Except there are guys with at-best similar playing experience that are clowning him in Rebound% and defensive ability, on his own team, at his own position. He also hasn't built off of what he did in his rookie year, in fact, he has gotten worse in key categories of play (rebounding and defense).

Sure, he could develop a dynamite mid-rage jumper in an off-season and totally reinvent himself. But that is a scenario not worth considering, because it requires so many "what if's", it's better to make assertions about his current skill level and projections about his future skill level based off of what he has actually done or is doing, which doesn't really have a place in the NBA.

Here is where you are wrong. Duncan wasn't a floor spacer. Okafor actually can make the same mid range shots that he made.

Bosh wasn't a Center and neither was Dirk.

Bosh also was a third option so he wasn't "leading" a team anywhere.

Bynum was the Center with the Lakers not Gasol.

I will test what I know about the game against what you know anyday of the week.

His first couple seasons have been a disaster. Most of that is on him but I believe some of it is on the dysfunction of the team he's been on.

Tim Duncan career %FG and FG% from 10-16 feet and 16 feet-3P: 33/40; 20/40

Jahlil Okafor career %FG and FG% from 10-16 feet and 16 feet-3P: 17/36; 5/28

So no, not really. He doesn't take nearly as many of those shots, and doesn't make them nearly as often.



Bosh played 55% of his minutes at the 5 for the Heat's first NBA Championship, and 97% of his minutes at the 5 for the second one.

Dirk played 84% of his minutes at the 5 when they lost the WCF in '04.



Which is a reason, what, not to want to acquire big men who can stretch the floor?



Except Gasol's minutes at the 5 only dropped below 50% twice, to 37% and 49%, during his time with the Lakers. When Gasol was on the floor with the Lakers, it is way more likely than not that he was at the 5, stretching the floor. That is irrefutable.



Well, as I've highlighted above, MANY of your basketball statements of late have been just plain wrong.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Here is the idiocy of a lot of you and other guys thoughts when it comes to this stuff. Guys have playing backup five (which they are undoubtedly doing) is not really playing the five. If Gasol and Bynum are starting together which they were undoubtedly were then GAsol can't play anything but the five. Dirk has been a no doubt 4 man for his career. If he is playing a little five so what. Taj plays backup five and so do a number of other guys. If any of the guys you named were leading teams anywhere as centers then they'd play Center and start there. I could dissect this Rubbish further but what is the point?

Then the Bulls are a perfect destination.

And right now, the lottery threshold sits at .444, with the Bulls at .473. With this amount of dysfunction, it's entirely possible that they miss the playoffs again and enter the lottery.

Ahhh, so now the guys that played at lot at the 5, aren't really "true 5's". Do you read your own posts? Your True Scotsman is moving your goalposts, again, might want to wrangle him in.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

He also hasn't built off of what he did in his rookie year, in fact, he has gotten worse in key categories of play (rebounding and defense).

Is Taj a 4 or 5?

How about Draemond Green?

Zach Randolph? I'm sure if you crunch the numbers you'd find that they play a lot of backup 5 too. Dirk Nowitski probably has never started an NBA game as a Center. Quick lets find a game where he actually did. The year they won Chandler was the Center. Chances are they were guarding other backup 4's during the time in which they played "Center". WHich Center was he guarding during the 04 playoffs? Was it Shaq? Duncan? Divac? Who was he guarding? IF he was guarding a true Center then yes I'd agree he was playing Center. If he guarded a guy masquerading as a Center then he wasn't


Let's focus on Dirk and no one else for right now.

Expecting a 21 year old kid with 1 year of experience to be a good/great shooter is ridiculous. Most players develop that. He's already proven to be excellent from 10 feet in and with his back to the basket. I'm more concerned with defense and rebounding than the need to develop a 15 foot jump shot.

Expecting a 21 year old kid with 1 year of experience to be a good/great shooter is ridiculous. Most players develop that.

I'm more concerned with defense and rebounding than the need to develop a 15 foot jump shot.

DeMarcus Cousins:



KAT:



Anthony Davis:



All of these guys were at-least serviceable from 15+ by their 2nd season in the league.



That's another valid concern, so why are you so hard-on for a guy that has regressed, even in rate-based metrics, defensively and crashing the boards?

To be fair, he asked you to name a stretch 5 who has ever won anything, and you responded by mentioning 5 guys who aren't stretch 5s.

i think you also have to consider the fact that he's being jerked around in regard to playing time...1 night he's starting and playing 30 minutes, then the next 2 games he's a DNP-CD. I don't see how you can expect a young player to grow and improve under those circumstances