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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:31 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
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denisdman wrote:
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@Jason1Goff
If you're against racial injustice and police brutality, then you're ok with the NFL protests. Pretty simple. Now time for me to listen to men who are 6 times less likely to be affected by either talk about it.
1:20 PM · May 23, 2018


:lol:


Fighting the good fight. It's not binary. Most of us are dead set against police brutality and racial injustice. But with that presumably large group, MANY feel protesting during the anthem is bad form.

MANY feel protesting before the anthem is played is bad form. MANY seem to feel protesting at all is bad form.



Really? Where is your evidence of that?

Personally, I don't give a fuck if they kneel during the anthem or wipe their asses with the American flag on TV, but what Goff says is simply wrong. A person can very well be against racial injustice/police brutality and against kneeling during the anthem at the same time. That isn't really difficult to understand.

Agreed. It would be like saying if you think Jane Fonda spitting in veterans faces was wrong, you support the Vietnam war.


There are definitely people that think protesting of any kind is wrong. A guy I work with calls em "troublemakers"



Sure, but I'm sure some people just want to be treated like the paying customers they are and that really shouldn't include being forced to indulge those providing the service.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Are we sure that, if we assume an interaction with a police officer, that whites are less likely to be victimized by unwarranted police violence than black people?

The aggregate statistics make Goff's statement true, and proceeding from that point of fact, I think it is prudent to then explore how likely white people are to interact with police officers relative to black people doing the same. I remember a study that tried to approximate "police interaction rates" using police reports, but not all interactions with police generate a report, in fact I'm willing to bet that most interactions, regardless of race, do not wind up documented in reports.



Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
TIL saying "black people constitute a higher percentage of the prison population than the at-large population because they commit more crimes" is a bigoted statement.

Are you open to the possibility that it may be a little more complex than that?


The statement isn't concerned with the "why" of the criminal behavior. Unless you are prepared to argue that there are a HUGE amount of false convictions, the statement is true and is not in need of further context.


What exactly do you think is the logical inconsistency here?

I find it interesting that in one case you want to delve deeper into the numbers and in the other you implore people to just accept the stats.

Just interesting.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Not long ago I saw a panel for women's rights in a middle eastern country (forgive me for forgetting which). There were over a dozen men on stage. No ladies. That's what days like this look and sound like.


Meltdown continuing.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:33 pm 
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So what, was he just cruising down a random street in Syria or Iran in his big, expensive car and just happened upon such a panel?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:34 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Are we sure that, if we assume an interaction with a police officer, that whites are less likely to be victimized by unwarranted police violence than black people?

The aggregate statistics make Goff's statement true, and proceeding from that point of fact, I think it is prudent to then explore how likely white people are to interact with police officers relative to black people doing the same. I remember a study that tried to approximate "police interaction rates" using police reports, but not all interactions with police generate a report, in fact I'm willing to bet that most interactions, regardless of race, do not wind up documented in reports.



Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
TIL saying "black people constitute a higher percentage of the prison population than the at-large population because they commit more crimes" is a bigoted statement.

Are you open to the possibility that it may be a little more complex than that?


The statement isn't concerned with the "why" of the criminal behavior. Unless you are prepared to argue that there are a HUGE amount of false convictions, the statement is true and is not in need of further context.


What exactly do you think is the logical inconsistency here?

I find it interesting that in one case you want to delve deeper into the numbers and in the other you implore people to just accept the stats.

Just interesting.

Nothing JLN posts is interesting.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:39 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Are we sure that, if we assume an interaction with a police officer, that whites are less likely to be victimized by unwarranted police violence than black people?

The aggregate statistics make Goff's statement true, and proceeding from that point of fact, I think it is prudent to then explore how likely white people are to interact with police officers relative to black people doing the same. I remember a study that tried to approximate "police interaction rates" using police reports, but not all interactions with police generate a report, in fact I'm willing to bet that most interactions, regardless of race, do not wind up documented in reports.



Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
TIL saying "black people constitute a higher percentage of the prison population than the at-large population because they commit more crimes" is a bigoted statement.

Are you open to the possibility that it may be a little more complex than that?


The statement isn't concerned with the "why" of the criminal behavior. Unless you are prepared to argue that there are a HUGE amount of false convictions, the statement is true and is not in need of further context.


What exactly do you think is the logical inconsistency here?

I find it interesting that in one case you want to delve deeper into the numbers and in the other you implore people to just accept the stats.

Just interesting.


Where did I say we shouldn't look for explanation of either respective factual statement? I even specifically said that the statement of fact made by Shapiro begs a request for further explanation and examination.

Just a poor, poor gotcha attempt. Do better.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
So what, was he just cruising down a random street in Syria or Iran in his big, expensive car and just happened upon such a panel?

It was the #MoreThanKhomeini event.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
So what, was he just cruising down a random street in Syria or Iran in his big, expensive car and just happened upon such a panel?

It was the #MoreThanKhomeini event.

:lol:

They had a woman there, Julie was just wearing a hijab

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:44 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
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@Jason1Goff
Not long ago I saw a panel for women's rights in a middle eastern country (forgive me for forgetting which). There were over a dozen men on stage. No ladies. That's what days like this look and sound like.


Meltdown continuing.


I had to double check to make sure that was a Goff tweet and not a Julie tweet.

Next time he should take the extra 30 seconds to verify which country as it would help give the impression his concern was legitimate.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:47 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
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@Jason1Goff
Not long ago I saw a panel for women's rights in a middle eastern country (forgive me for forgetting which).



No, he didn't.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Are we sure that, if we assume an interaction with a police officer, that whites are less likely to be victimized by unwarranted police violence than black people?

The aggregate statistics make Goff's statement true, and proceeding from that point of fact, I think it is prudent to then explore how likely white people are to interact with police officers relative to black people doing the same. I remember a study that tried to approximate "police interaction rates" using police reports, but not all interactions with police generate a report, in fact I'm willing to bet that most interactions, regardless of race, do not wind up documented in reports.


If you already accept that blacks are more likely to be victims of police brutality what does it matter if whites interact with the police more or less often than blacks?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.


BOOM!

:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:53 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.


BOOM!

:lol: :lol:

The guys he spots there will be really hung, eh?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Someone please tweet that at him.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

I find it interesting that in one case you want to delve deeper into the numbers and in the other you implore people to just accept the stats.

Just interesting.


Where did I say we shouldn't look for explanation of either respective factual statement? I even specifically said that the statement of fact made by Shapiro begs a request for further explanation and examination.

Just a poor, poor gotcha attempt. Do better.

I guess I misunderstood your saying "no context is needed"

I didn't know you meant "context is definitely needed"


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The guys he spots there will be really hung, eh?

Their window will be open for years!

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:02 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Are we sure that, if we assume an interaction with a police officer, that whites are less likely to be victimized by unwarranted police violence than black people?

The aggregate statistics make Goff's statement true, and proceeding from that point of fact, I think it is prudent to then explore how likely white people are to interact with police officers relative to black people doing the same. I remember a study that tried to approximate "police interaction rates" using police reports, but not all interactions with police generate a report, in fact I'm willing to bet that most interactions, regardless of race, do not wind up documented in reports.


If you already accept that blacks are more likely to be victims of police brutality what does it matter if whites interact with the police more or less often than blacks?


Because I'd like to know what is the driving force behind the observed fact, as the statistics in the aggregate do not necessarily implicate an active racial bias in policing. Police interaction data (perhaps from body camera footage plugged into an AI) can give us a better understanding of what we observe.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:04 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

I find it interesting that in one case you want to delve deeper into the numbers and in the other you implore people to just accept the stats.

Just interesting.


Where did I say we shouldn't look for explanation of either respective factual statement? I even specifically said that the statement of fact made by Shapiro begs a request for further explanation and examination.

Just a poor, poor gotcha attempt. Do better.

I guess I misunderstood your saying "no context is needed"

I didn't know you meant "context is definitely needed"


Again with the gotcha attempts of a fourth grader. I didnt chide Jason for failing to provide or reference the context in which his figure is true. In fact, I specifically said "proceeding from that point of fact...".


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.


BOOM!

:lol: :lol:

The guys he spots there will be really hung, eh?


hanged

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:11 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.


BOOM!

:lol: :lol:

The guys he spots there will be really hung, eh?


hanged

It's all right, Taggart. Just a man and a horse being hung.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.

+ :lol: (sorry, RR)

Wow . . . you sure can find the soft spot in someone's armor.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Jason would go to the Middle East to fight injustice, but he'd wind up being celebrated by local clerics because no one had ever identified more homosexuals.
This is part of why he is so salty.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:16 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

I find it interesting that in one case you want to delve deeper into the numbers and in the other you implore people to just accept the stats.

Just interesting.


Where did I say we shouldn't look for explanation of either respective factual statement? I even specifically said that the statement of fact made by Shapiro begs a request for further explanation and examination.

Just a poor, poor gotcha attempt. Do better.

I guess I misunderstood your saying "no context is needed"

I didn't know you meant "context is definitely needed"


Good catch. Whenever it is something that he agrees with it is never necessary to dig deeper. Whenever it is something that he doesn't agree with then we must invariably"dig deeper". It will become so deep with inquiry that the hope is that you will lose sight of what the original point happens to be. You haven't reached the point where you just have to address some irrelevant point simply in order to address an irrelevant. It is coming however.

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Last edited by long time guy on Wed May 23, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Are we sure that, if we assume an interaction with a police officer, that whites are less likely to be victimized by unwarranted police violence than black people?

The aggregate statistics make Goff's statement true, and proceeding from that point of fact, I think it is prudent to then explore how likely white people are to interact with police officers relative to black people doing the same. I remember a study that tried to approximate "police interaction rates" using police reports, but not all interactions with police generate a report, in fact I'm willing to bet that most interactions, regardless of race, do not wind up documented in reports.


If you already accept that blacks are more likely to be victims of police brutality what does it matter if whites interact with the police more or less often than blacks?


Because I'd like to know what is the driving force behind the observed fact, as the statistics in the aggregate do not necessarily implicate an active racial bias in policing. Police interaction data (perhaps from body camera footage plugged into an AI) can give us a better understanding of what we observe.


I guess I need you to say specifically what you mean when you said, "Goff's statement". To me his statement essentially was: blacks are 6X more likely to be effected by police brutality than whites [I'm not including the more nebulous "racial injustice" which seems impossible to measure]. You appear to accept this statement as true.

If you already acknowledge that blacks are six times more likely to be victims of police brutality than whites, what difference does it make whether or not there is or isn't a racial bias in policing? Even if you were to assume there was no racial bias in policing that still doesn't take away from the fact that blacks are six times more likely than whites to be victims of police brutality. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your position.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:34 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Are we sure that, if we assume an interaction with a police officer, that whites are less likely to be victimized by unwarranted police violence than black people?

The aggregate statistics make Goff's statement true, and proceeding from that point of fact, I think it is prudent to then explore how likely white people are to interact with police officers relative to black people doing the same. I remember a study that tried to approximate "police interaction rates" using police reports, but not all interactions with police generate a report, in fact I'm willing to bet that most interactions, regardless of race, do not wind up documented in reports.


If you already accept that blacks are more likely to be victims of police brutality what does it matter if whites interact with the police more or less often than blacks?


Because I'd like to know what is the driving force behind the observed fact, as the statistics in the aggregate do not necessarily implicate an active racial bias in policing. Police interaction data (perhaps from body camera footage plugged into an AI) can give us a better understanding of what we observe.


I guess I need you to say specifically what you mean when you said, "Goff's statement". To me his statement essentially was: blacks are 6X more likely to be effected by police brutality than whites [I'm not including the more nebulous "racial injustice" which seems impossible to measure]. You appear to accept this statement as true.

If you already acknowledge that blacks are six times more likely to be victims of police brutality than whites, what difference does it make whether or not there is or isn't a racial bias in policing? Even if you were to assume there was no racial bias in policing that still doesn't take away from the fact that blacks are six times more likely than whites to be victims of police brutality. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your position.


Would you agree that we should know more about the cause of an issue if we want to rectify it? But if you just want to sit around and clutch pearls feel free.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:43 pm 
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@Jason1Goff
Not long ago I saw a panel for women's rights in a middle eastern country (forgive me for forgetting which). There were over a dozen men on stage. No ladies. That's what days like this look and sound like.


Meltdown continuing.


Why would he be surprised by that or expect any less?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
So what, was he just cruising down a random street in Syria or Iran in his big, expensive car and just happened upon such a panel?

It was the #MoreThanKhomeini event.

More than Khomeni,
More than Khomeni to me.

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