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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:42 am 
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This makes me think of another discussion we should have after the season starts and all this FA period is done. The economics of baseball is an incredible story encompassing so many things. Almost of of which have no connection to reality.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:49 am 
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pittmike wrote:
This makes me think of another discussion we should have after the season starts and all this FA period is done. The economics of baseball is an incredible story encompassing so many things. Almost of of which have no connection to reality.

White Sox are a good example of today's messed up MLB structure.

Essentially free stadium, concessions and parking goes to White Sox, TV deal locks in XYZ revenue.

Pirates are another good example. Had a great team and open window but owner was too cheap to pay for finishing touches during their window.

Brewers ownership has really defined themselves as the model small-medium market ownership group.


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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:49 am 
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It’s really quite simple. The current deal effectively caps big spenders with a luxury tax on the idea of leveling the playing field. Instead, they need to share a percentage of league revenues with the players and have a payroll floor. The players don’t want a salary cap, but if total payroll is set as a percentage of revenue, then I think it would be fair to all.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:13 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
This makes me think of another discussion we should have after the season starts and all this FA period is done. The economics of baseball is an incredible story encompassing so many things. Almost of of which have no connection to reality.

White Sox are a good example of today's messed up MLB structure.

Essentially free stadium, concessions and parking goes to White Sox, TV deal locks in XYZ revenue.

Pirates are another good example. Had a great team and open window but owner was too cheap to pay for finishing touches during their window.

Brewers ownership has really defined themselves as the model small-medium market ownership group.



Yeah. In the past the Brewers weren't quite doing it right eg Prince. Pirates nor anyone else has a lease/stadium deal as great as the Sox. They did not break the bank at the time they were very competitive for three years though. Correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:18 am 
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denisdman wrote:
It’s really quite simple. The current deal effectively caps big spenders with a luxury tax on the idea of leveling the playing field. Instead, they need to share a percentage of league revenues with the players and have a payroll floor. The players don’t want a salary cap, but if total payroll is set as a percentage of revenue, then I think it would be fair to all.


Yeah the floor is very important. Although if not careful it can cause a couple issues eg NHL.

Anyway, my interest in the topic also includes the unnatural inflation. Keep in mind I know why this has happened and not really blaming either side at all. Actually the fan gets screwed the most.

Between TV revenues, player salaries and a host of other smaller factors like agents and arbitration etc there is a cycle of ever expanding funny money made/earned/consumed that shows no correlation to any other economic system since say 1980 or so. Think how recent (in historic terms) it was that Rickey Henderson, I think, became the first $3M dollar player.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:29 pm 
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In 2018 Team payrolls ranged from 68,810,167 to 227,398,860.

man...that's an awfully large gap. interesting to see how badly the Padres have been eating money the last 2 seasons...wow.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:24 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
mrgoodkat wrote:
We know that the huge majority (I think more than 70% if I remember correctly) of the ultra wealthy are purely self made and worked their ass off to get there.

We do?

Not quite.

We know that 70% of the money of those 400 was not inherited.

The thing left out is, a guy like Trump gets a "small loan" from his father for 1 million (looking further into it he gave him way more in assets worth about 60 million)

But just take that 1 million. Now credit to Trump for making all the money he has made since then, but would he have done it without his father's million? Odds are against it.

A better study, if possible, would be how much of wealth is built with a base of inheritance.

But, some people will always have more advantages than others.



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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:36 am 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
In 2018 Team payrolls ranged from 68,810,167 to 227,398,860.

man...that's an awfully large gap. interesting to see how badly the Padres have been eating money the last 2 seasons...wow.



The Giants suck, they had 208 million payroll. Milwaukee was about half that.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:43 am 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
In 2018 Team payrolls ranged from 68,810,167 to 227,398,860.

man...that's an awfully large gap. interesting to see how badly the Padres have been eating money the last 2 seasons...wow.


The competitive balance tax was supposed to address that by penalizing the Yankees for spending and sending money to the Reds and Pirates. But the small market teams generally pocketed the money. If you want it to be fair, the NFL has the best structure for sharing the revenues and setting a cap and floor.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:47 am 
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denisdman wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
In 2018 Team payrolls ranged from 68,810,167 to 227,398,860.

man...that's an awfully large gap. interesting to see how badly the Padres have been eating money the last 2 seasons...wow.


The competitive balance tax was supposed to address that by penalizing the Yankees for spending and sending money to the Reds and Pirates. But the small market teams generally pocketed the money. If you want it to be fair, the NFL has the best structure for sharing the revenues and setting a cap and floor.



Isn't it too late to share TV revenue at this point? Many teams already have their own networks and deals. I never liked the idea of revenue sharing in baseball, it's easy for NFL with 26 regular season games but 162 is too difficult. I don't like rewarding ineptitude or miserly ownership.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:49 am 
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You’re spot on, the revenue model is completely different due to regional deals.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:52 pm 
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They cannot address it until the next CBA. They fucked themselves when they did the luxury tax but didn't add in any kind of salary floor. Then again.....teams like the White Sox prioritize
1. Financial Balance sheet / Shareholder payout
2. Stadium favorability
3. Winning

Not unique to the White Sox.....plenty of company with other small market teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:58 pm 
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Mid market team. TV, Radio and advertising revenue. They are damn lucky the product they put out isn't in Cleveland.


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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:17 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
They cannot address it until the next CBA. They fucked themselves when they did the luxury tax but didn't add in any kind of salary floor. Then again.....teams like the White Sox prioritize
1. Financial Balance sheet / Shareholder payout
2. Stadium favorability
3. Winning

Not unique to the White Sox.....plenty of company with other small market teams.



Why should there be a floor? Look at the Brewers.. I remember one year when Girardi had the Marlins at 81 wins with a payroll of 30 million and Arod was making like 28 million.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:20 pm 
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The floor idea is so players and rich owners don’t lose out to the pocketing cheap owners receiving welfare.

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 Post subject: Re: Collusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:47 pm 
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Forget the floor. Teams should be able to offer bonuses based on the team making the playoffs, making the World Series, and winning the World Series.

Also, the minimum AAA salary for anybody with a year of MLB service time should be $150k/year, and there should be an additional $50k minimum for being an NRI in that situation.

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