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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:27 am 
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Nas wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Exactly. 12 wins. He wasn't good enough to win a 13th, 14th, or 15th game last season.

Still waiting for that data showing how great Mitch against certain defenses...


Look at the games where defenses play exclusively man or don't disguise their zone coverages. Lions, Cowboys and Redskins off the top of my head. Listen to the experts. Holmes show from Monday would be a good start.
You are holding on to decent games against a team who lost 9 in a row to end the year, and the hapless Cowboys where Mitch's great game was to little too late.

What about the times Mitch failed to lead to offense to more than 20 points against teams like the Packers, Broncos, Chargers, Eagles, Rams, Packers, and Giants? Of those, the only team with a winning record was the Packers. Also, the offense only put up 19 points against the Vikings backups in the final game of the season, and Mitch nearly cost them that win by putting the ball on the carpet late in the 4th quarter. And I know (at least, I hope) you are smart enough to realize that the two late TD drives against the Saints were meaningless. So that makes 9 games where the offense failed to put up more than 20 points.

I watch the games. Do you? I see the results. They are not good enough. You speak as though they are good enough. I want to Bears to make the playoffs and win a Super Bowl. That is not going to happen if the Bears have to rely on Mitch to score points and make plays. It didn't last year in the playoffs. It didn't this year outside of the Cowboys game. Why should I expect any different next year?

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:45 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Exactly. 12 wins. He wasn't good enough to win a 13th, 14th, or 15th game last season.

Still waiting for that data showing how great Mitch against certain defenses...


Look at the games where defenses play exclusively man or don't disguise their zone coverages. Lions, Cowboys and Redskins off the top of my head. Listen to the experts. Holmes show from Monday would be a good start.
You are holding on to decent games against a team who lost 9 in a row to end the year, and the hapless Cowboys where Mitch's great game was to little too late.

What about the times Mitch failed to lead to offense to more than 20 points against teams like the Packers, Broncos, Chargers, Eagles, Rams, Packers, and Giants? Of those, the only team with a winning record was the Packers. Also, the offense only put up 19 points against the Vikings backups in the final game of the season, and Mitch nearly cost them that win by putting the ball on the carpet late in the 4th quarter. And I know (at least, I hope) you are smart enough to realize that the two late TD drives against the Saints were meaningless. So that makes 9 games where the offense failed to put up more than 20 points.

I watch the games. Do you? I see the results. They are not good enough. You speak as though they are good enough. I want to Bears to make the playoffs and win a Super Bowl. That is not going to happen if the Bears have to rely on Mitch to score points and make plays. It didn't last year in the playoffs. It didn't this year outside of the Cowboys game. Why should I expect any different next year?


I'm not holding on to anything. Are you always this guy? I simply said what every expert has said and what the data backs up. He does well against teams who play exclusively man like the Lions or don't disguise their zone coverages like the Cowboys.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:47 am 
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Nas wrote:
I simply said what every expert has said and what the data backs up.
Show your work.

And Sir is not an expert.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas wrote:
I simply said what every expert has said and what the data backs up.
Show your work.

And Sir is not an expert.


Look at the stats of those games. He had 1100 yards 13 total touchdowns and 3 interceptions in those games. He's owned the Lions since Patricia brought his man scheme there and the Cowboys game was his best game of his career against a good defense. It happened primarily because the Cowboys didn't disguise their zone coverages. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky can recognize a basic zone or a man coverage. He sucks when you disguise your zone coverages. It's why he's better at the end of games in hurry up because coverages aren't disguised. He can pick that apart if given time. If he understands what you're doing he makes throws with "conviction" and his accuracy is great.

The Rams were the first team last year to recognize disguising their zone coverages was something that he would struggle with. The Packers did it to start the season. He still had an issue with it most of the season. His accuracy isn't great and he looks unsure far too often when he doesn't recognize the coverage.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:26 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
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Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
There's a difference between dumb throws and just being confused by defenses because you're slow. Did we ever have anyone in the latter category?


December 31, 2019 : Matt Nagy on what he wants to see from Mitchell (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky this offseason: "I want him to be a master at understanding coverages."

This is heading into year 4 of his career.


I don't feel "becoming a master at understanding coverages" is really a skill you master in your mid-20s playing in the NFL. I think it's something you have to develop in HS or early college or of course, you never develop it at all.


Huh?


What don't you understand? Do you really think an NFL quarterback that is currently a 1 read guy can turn into a field scanner like Brees? This is a skill that takes years and years to build and if you don't have it by now, it ain't never going to happen.


You don't learn to read NFL defenses in high school or college. They're far more complex and the players are better. Quarterbacks are constantly learning defenses because things change. You can always learn. It's easier for some than others.

(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky hasn't been a 1 read guy since last season. His issue was always understanding zone coverages. He's gotten a lot better at it. He's great recognizing man. That's why everyone with the exception of the Lions don't use man coverage a lot when they play the Bears.


I agree. I think it is a good move as far as it goes. The downer in all of this, though, is that it appears that Nagy is going to stay, therefore his boss, Pace is going to stay also. The Bears are screwed. :x :x :x

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:27 pm 
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So you want to hang on two games against a 3-11-1 team, and 1 good game late in the season when their playoff chances were like 5%.

That's sad, Nas. I thought you would want better for your football team.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
So you want to hang on two games against a 3-11-1 team, and 1 good game late in the season when their playoff chances were like 5%.

That's sad, Nas. I thought you would want better for your football team.


I really hope you are trolling me.

I'm not hanging on to anything. I simply pointed out games against teams who play exclusively man and a team that doesn't disguise their zone coverages. This is what the experts say and based on the results I can see they are probably right.

When (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky knows what you are doing or you can't disguise what you are doing and he has time, he's a really good quarterback. When he doesn't have time or can't recognize what you are doing, he's generally bad.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:37 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mitch appears to be a bit of a simpleton, and his regression this year confirms such notions. I doubt he can improve as much as he needs to in this area.


Based on what?

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:43 pm 
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By all accounts he works his ass off. It's probably one of the reasons the locker room didn't turn on him. That and he appears to be a decent guy. He's clearly not very bright though.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:44 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
The results were 8 wins, which was not good enough for the playoffs.

There is our data, now kindly provide yours Nas.


OK. Lets say Mitch gets cut tomorrow. He's now gone for good. Who do they bring in to play quarterback and what else do they do given that they have two 2nd round picks and some limited free agent money. Please be specific and not some general crap like get offensive line help. :( :( :(

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:47 pm 
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I'd like to think that some of the issues they had were reading game speed defense, which, due to Nagy's insistence that the starters sit for all of the preseason games, it puts them 4 weeks behind, and they didn't catch up to that. I think with the proper type of practice (exhibition games not against the Bears D) that Mitch could learn to read defenses and get better.

Part of me wonders if he was hurt early in the year, and the time off for the shoulder back in October, plus the bye week, helped heal whatever the mystery ailment was.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Nas wrote:
When (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky knows what you are doing or you can't disguise what you are doing and he has time, he's a really good quarterback.
I'll agree that when Mitch knows exactly what the defense is doing and he has time to throw, he can be a good QB. So can 31 other guys in the NFL. That is just not the way defense works though, Nas. You know this. Blitzes change, personnel changes, packages change. Mitch has to be able to read and diagnose things quickly, and it appears he can't.

Of course then when he does or Nagy dials up the right play to get a guy open downfield, Mitch can't throw a good pass.

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Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:52 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'd like to think that some of the issues they had were reading game speed defense, which, due to Nagy's insistence that the starters sit for all of the preseason games, it puts them 4 weeks behind, and they didn't catch up to that. I think with the proper type of practice (exhibition games not against the Bears D) that Mitch could learn to read defenses and get better.

Part of me wonders if he was hurt early in the year, and the time off for the shoulder back in October, plus the bye week, helped heal whatever the mystery ailment was.


There is no reason to to have him sitting during the offseason unless he has surgery on his shoulder.

Something happened late in the year where he had a little edge and stopped sounding exactly like his coach. I would like to see that guy from the beginning of the offseason program. If guys are raving about the way he gets them in the huddle and not how he's performing then I'll know that he hasn't gotten better.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:55 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas wrote:
When (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky knows what you are doing or you can't disguise what you are doing and he has time, he's a really good quarterback.
I'll agree that when Mitch knows exactly what the defense is doing and he has time to throw, he can be a good QB. So can 31 other guys in the NFL. That is just not the way defense works though, Nas. You know this. Blitzes change, personnel changes, packages change. Mitch has to be able to read and diagnose things quickly, and it appears he can't.

Of course then when he does or Nagy dials up the right play to get a guy open downfield, Mitch can't throw a good pass.



In general, I don't disagree. I think he looks like a top 10 guy when he does. How do you get him there consistently? I don't know. Maybe it will never happen.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:56 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas wrote:
When (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky knows what you are doing or you can't disguise what you are doing and he has time, he's a really good quarterback.
I'll agree that when Mitch knows exactly what the defense is doing and he has time to throw, he can be a good QB. So can 31 other guys in the NFL.


In general, I don't disagree. I think he looks like a top 10 guy when he does. How do you get him there consistently? I don't know. Maybe it will never happen.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't teach him how to drink.

I just don't think Mitch has it in him. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:51 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'd like to think that some of the issues they had were reading game speed defense, which, due to Nagy's insistence that the starters sit for all of the preseason games, it puts them 4 weeks behind, and they didn't catch up to that. I think with the proper type of practice (exhibition games not against the Bears D) that Mitch could learn to read defenses and get better.

Part of me wonders if he was hurt early in the year, and the time off for the shoulder back in October, plus the bye week, helped heal whatever the mystery ailment was.


That is what I think also. I think that he was hurt and Nagy didn't want teams to game plan with that in mind. Nothing else really makes sense to me regarding how Nagy game planned in the beginning of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:57 pm 
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OL coach sounds like an amazing teacher.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:01 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'd like to think that some of the issues they had were reading game speed defense, which, due to Nagy's insistence that the starters sit for all of the preseason games, it puts them 4 weeks behind, and they didn't catch up to that. I think with the proper type of practice (exhibition games not against the Bears D) that Mitch could learn to read defenses and get better.

Part of me wonders if he was hurt early in the year, and the time off for the shoulder back in October, plus the bye week, helped heal whatever the mystery ailment was.


That is what I think also. I think that he was hurt and Nagy didn't want teams to game plan with that in mind. Nothing else really makes sense to me regarding how Nagy game planned in the beginning of the season.


It showed, especially when he wouldn't tuck the ball and run like he did last season.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:18 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'd like to think that some of the issues they had were reading game speed defense, which, due to Nagy's insistence that the starters sit for all of the preseason games, it puts them 4 weeks behind, and they didn't catch up to that. I think with the proper type of practice (exhibition games not against the Bears D) that Mitch could learn to read defenses and get better.

Part of me wonders if he was hurt early in the year, and the time off for the shoulder back in October, plus the bye week, helped heal whatever the mystery ailment was.


That is what I think also. I think that he was hurt and Nagy didn't want teams to game plan with that in mind. Nothing else really makes sense to me regarding how Nagy game planned in the beginning of the season.


It showed, especially when he wouldn't tuck the ball and run like he did last season.


That's right. It had to be some kind of leg or lower back injury that got covered up.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:19 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'd like to think that some of the issues they had were reading game speed defense, which, due to Nagy's insistence that the starters sit for all of the preseason games, it puts them 4 weeks behind, and they didn't catch up to that. I think with the proper type of practice (exhibition games not against the Bears D) that Mitch could learn to read defenses and get better.

Part of me wonders if he was hurt early in the year, and the time off for the shoulder back in October, plus the bye week, helped heal whatever the mystery ailment was.


That is what I think also. I think that he was hurt and Nagy didn't want teams to game plan with that in mind. Nothing else really makes sense to me regarding how Nagy game planned in the beginning of the season.


It showed, especially when he wouldn't tuck the ball and run like he did last season.


That's right. It had to be some kind of leg or lower back injury that got covered up.


Knee or ankle came to mind, personally

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:52 pm 
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Why do the Bears need an offensive coordinator when Matt Nagy is the offensive coordinator? His head is buried in his stupid play sheet all game. Just seems like a position to deflect blame.


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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:00 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'd like to think that some of the issues they had were reading game speed defense, which, due to Nagy's insistence that the starters sit for all of the preseason games, it puts them 4 weeks behind, and they didn't catch up to that. I think with the proper type of practice (exhibition games not against the Bears D) that Mitch could learn to read defenses and get better.

Part of me wonders if he was hurt early in the year, and the time off for the shoulder back in October, plus the bye week, helped heal whatever the mystery ailment was.


That is what I think also. I think that he was hurt and Nagy didn't want teams to game plan with that in mind. Nothing else really makes sense to me regarding how Nagy game planned in the beginning of the season.


It showed, especially when he wouldn't tuck the ball and run like he did last season.


That's right. It had to be some kind of leg or lower back injury that got covered up.


Knee or ankle came to mind, personally
If his troubles were caused by an injury, don't you think the Bears would let that be known after the season ended? They knew was getting bashed unmercifully by the fans and media...why not give him some cover?

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:08 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'd like to think that some of the issues they had were reading game speed defense, which, due to Nagy's insistence that the starters sit for all of the preseason games, it puts them 4 weeks behind, and they didn't catch up to that. I think with the proper type of practice (exhibition games not against the Bears D) that Mitch could learn to read defenses and get better.

Part of me wonders if he was hurt early in the year, and the time off for the shoulder back in October, plus the bye week, helped heal whatever the mystery ailment was.


That is what I think also. I think that he was hurt and Nagy didn't want teams to game plan with that in mind. Nothing else really makes sense to me regarding how Nagy game planned in the beginning of the season.


It showed, especially when he wouldn't tuck the ball and run like he did last season.


That's right. It had to be some kind of leg or lower back injury that got covered up.


Knee or ankle came to mind, personally
If his troubles were caused by an injury, don't you think the Bears would let that be known after the season ended? They knew was getting bashed unmercifully by the fans and media...why not give him some cover?


Because injury wouldn't explain some of his poor play earlier in the season beyond him simply not running.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:43 am 
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I heard Biggs raise a good point this morning about Castillo.

He has been hired and fired by two former Reid assistants already.

What do they know that Nagy feels they are wrong about?

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:48 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
I heard Biggs raise a good point this morning about Castillo.

He has been hired and fired by two former Reid assistants already.

What do they know that Nagy feels they are wrong about?


No way Castillo is at Michigan last year if John Harbaugh felt that poorly about him.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:55 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
I heard Biggs raise a good point this morning about Castillo.

He has been hired and fired by two former Reid assistants already.

What do they know that Nagy feels they are wrong about?


let me know when you find a long time NFL assistant coach who's never been fired


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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:59 am 
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He was fired as defensive coordinator in Philly...I remember Reid being mocked for putting an oline coach at DC.


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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
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Any assistant isn't going to make Leno play any better at this point. Leno must really be bad even Hub thinks he sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:03 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
I heard Biggs raise a good point this morning about Castillo.

He has been hired and fired by two former Reid assistants already.

What do they know that Nagy feels they are wrong about?


let me know when you find a long time NFL assistant coach who's never been fired


If I could have made my point clear enough for you to understand, then I would have done it.

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 Post subject: Re: New Staff hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:04 pm 
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Posts: 41379
Location: Small Fringe Minority
pizza_Place: John's
Seacrest wrote:
billypootons wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
I heard Biggs raise a good point this morning about Castillo.

He has been hired and fired by two former Reid assistants already.

What do they know that Nagy feels they are wrong about?


let me know when you find a long time NFL assistant coach who's never been fired


If I could have made my point clear enough for you to understand, then I would have done it.


The point Biggs makes is moot because he wasn't fired based on his skills as an oline coach in Philly.


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