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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:03 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Bears fans being happy with 2 2nd round picks and 0 1st round picks : ok
:lol: Talk about making stuff up...

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:05 pm 
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Unless the BEars immediately fire Ryan Pace and bring in a kick ass general manager, they are not going to win 6 games next season. They need a general manager with authority to hire his own coaching staff and scouting department. Anything short of this would be futile. Pace put them in this mess and now they have to dig themselves out of it. Its a shame because they are wasting a damned good defense. Perhaps the new GM would like Pagano as a head coach?

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:05 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Like ltg said, you love to play your own hype man.

Anyway, the narrative that the draft capital is meaningless is my favorite spin of yours and Rick’s so I didn’t say stop.

No one said it was meaningless. I am the only one who said what the meaning of that "draft capital" actually was.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Now Frank' starts in with the "Oops"game. Classic Frank move. Frank whining about officiating throughout the season vs. me mentioning it in the last game of the season is clearly the same thing.

I honestly don't know what point you are making with the draft, but you seem to be trying really hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:08 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Furious Styles wrote:
Open up another thread and what do you find? Excuses. Fantasyland.

Quote:
If the Bears had Tannehill this year they probably would have won at least two more games and made the playoffs.
Fantasyland is where you seem to reside as you assume the RAIDERS are going to knock it out of the park with every draft pick they have.

Had the Bears employed a better QB this season, it its not unreasonable at all to say they could have won at least two of these games; Packers, Oakland, San Diego, Philadelphia, and Packers.


If Tannehill QBed behind that Bears line and with our TEs and RBs, his fate would have been the same as (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's. :eye: :eye:

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:16 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
If the Raiders had signed him to that contract pre trade and then put him on the market, the return would have been similar. If the Bears were to put him on the market today, they would receive no less of a return than they gave.

The contract may have been the genesis of the need to trade from the Raiders perspective, it was not what impacted the return from their perspective or the Bears.

The Bears didn't win or lose the trade because of the contract. They win or lose because of what they gave to Raiders in return for the production they have received.

The contract 100% affected the return and it can't be discarded when assessing the trade. There's an opportunity cost to handing out a record setting contract.

It depends on the situation. The Bears were in a great position to absorb that contract given the rest of the roster and how they were being paid. One of the big flaws in this plan is the idea that Mack at $24 million could have his complete production surpassed by multiple players being paid a combined $24 million AFTER they've already filled the cap with the players they signed anyways. They would have to have found a player in free agency who plays the same position as Mack. So, let's say that was CJ Mosley, who got $17 million a year. You really need to hit it out of the park with the last $7 million. Make it Preston Smith and you have $11 million more to spend.

All of a sudden it sounds a lot harder to surpass Mack's expected production in free agency when you are paying an inferior player half or more of the money Mack got.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:21 pm 
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Furious Styles wrote:
Frank whining about officiating throughout the season
Where have I blamed Bear losses on the refs? The officiating overall has been bad this season. Not sure how pointing out facts qualifies as whining.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
If the Raiders had signed him to that contract pre trade and then put him on the market, the return would have been similar. If the Bears were to put him on the market today, they would receive no less of a return than they gave.

The contract may have been the genesis of the need to trade from the Raiders perspective, it was not what impacted the return from their perspective or the Bears.

The Bears didn't win or lose the trade because of the contract. They win or lose because of what they gave to Raiders in return for the production they have received.

The contract 100% affected the return and it can't be discarded when assessing the trade. There's an opportunity cost to handing out a record setting contract.

It depends on the situation. The Bears were in a great position to absorb that contract given the rest of the roster and how they were being paid. One of the big flaws in this plan is the idea that Mack at $24 million could have his complete production surpassed by multiple players being paid a combined $24 million AFTER they've already filled the cap with the players they signed anyways. They would have to have found a player in free agency who plays the same position as Mack. So, let's say that was CJ Mosley, who got $17 million a year. You really need to hit it out of the park with the last $7 million. Make it Preston Smith and you have $11 million more to spend.

All of a sudden it sounds a lot harder to surpass Mack's expected production in free agency when you are paying an inferior player half or more of the money Mack got.

Preston Smith has been better than Mack this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:38 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Unless the BEars immediately fire Ryan Pace and bring in a kick ass general manager, they are not going to win 6 games next season. They need a general manager with authority to hire his own coaching staff and scouting department. Anything short of this would be futile. Pace put them in this mess and now they have to dig themselves out of it. Its a shame because they are wasting a damned good defense. Perhaps the new GM would like Pagano as a head coach?


1) The Bears are in the playoffs if their dipshit QB puts up 11 points over GB in week 1, 18 over San Diego, and 18 over LA. Or is that expecting too much for your little savior?

2) You can't dig yourself out of a hole. Digging would only make it worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:47 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
If the Raiders had signed him to that contract pre trade and then put him on the market, the return would have been similar. If the Bears were to put him on the market today, they would receive no less of a return than they gave.

The contract may have been the genesis of the need to trade from the Raiders perspective, it was not what impacted the return from their perspective or the Bears.

The Bears didn't win or lose the trade because of the contract. They win or lose because of what they gave to Raiders in return for the production they have received.

The contract 100% affected the return and it can't be discarded when assessing the trade. There's an opportunity cost to handing out a record setting contract.

It depends on the situation. The Bears were in a great position to absorb that contract given the rest of the roster and how they were being paid. One of the big flaws in this plan is the idea that Mack at $24 million could have his complete production surpassed by multiple players being paid a combined $24 million AFTER they've already filled the cap with the players they signed anyways. They would have to have found a player in free agency who plays the same position as Mack. So, let's say that was CJ Mosley, who got $17 million a year. You really need to hit it out of the park with the last $7 million. Make it Preston Smith and you have $11 million more to spend.

All of a sudden it sounds a lot harder to surpass Mack's expected production in free agency when you are paying an inferior player half or more of the money Mack got.

Preston Smith has been better than Mack this year.

Maybe. How about last year?

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Last year Mack was probably better.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:04 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Last year Mack was probably better.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:07 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
If the Raiders had signed him to that contract pre trade and then put him on the market, the return would have been similar. If the Bears were to put him on the market today, they would receive no less of a return than they gave.

The contract may have been the genesis of the need to trade from the Raiders perspective, it was not what impacted the return from their perspective or the Bears.

The Bears didn't win or lose the trade because of the contract. They win or lose because of what they gave to Raiders in return for the production they have received.

The contract 100% affected the return and it can't be discarded when assessing the trade. There's an opportunity cost to handing out a record setting contract.


Right, just like any other free agent contract, which is essentially how the contract portion should be viewed.

The contract didn't affect the return. Hell, Pace gave up almost as much to move up one spot for (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.

Now, I'm getting angry on NYE. I'll just have some alcohol. That will solve the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:51 pm 
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/khalil-mac ... 35087.html


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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:55 pm 
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Bababooey wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/khalil-macks-contract-dubbed-bears-062735087.html

Quote:
He's the highest-paid defensive player in the history of the league, and the Bears have won zero playoff games since they handed him that contract before the 2018 season.

That isn't Mack's fault, but for that money, you have to be transcendent. He has 21 sacks in 30 games as a Bear, which is good but not great. And the Chicago defense took a big step backward statistically in 2019.

What's most concerning is the 2014 first-round pick wasn't even expensive the last two years. But he'll account for more than $26 million against the cap in each of the next three seasons, with Chicago only able to get out of the third year with a $12 million dead-cap charge. Not ideal considering Mack will be 29 next month.


Hard to argue

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:02 pm 
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Khalil Mack isn't the problem. The fact that Pace doesn't draft well is the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:05 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Khalil Mack isn't the problem. The fact that Pace doesn't draft well is the problem.

You traded for and are paying Mack more than to just not be the problem. He’s also not part of the solution.

Looking like a classic get paid and chill situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:15 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.


Ryan Pace has taken the past 5 years off. The Bears aren't winning anything with him running things.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:16 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Khalil Mack isn't the problem. The fact that Pace doesn't draft well is the problem.

You traded for and are paying Mack more than to just not be the problem. He’s also not part of the solution.

Looking like a classic get paid and chill situation.


Pace traded for Mack and gave him a huge contract to conceal his incompetence. Pace is the problem, not Mack.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:25 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.


Ryan Pace has taken the past 5 years off. The Bears aren't winning anything with him running things.


He's done well with the defense and rebuilding the overall team. His misses on offense have been awful.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:09 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.

Hard to argue.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:11 pm 
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Furious Styles wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.

Hard to argue.

In hindsight he really has been more of a follower than a leader in his career.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:09 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Furious Styles wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.

Hard to argue.

In hindsight he really has been more of a follower than a leader in his career.

Would you not have traded your last two first round picks for Mack?

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:13 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Furious Styles wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.

Hard to argue.

In hindsight he really has been more of a follower than a leader in his career.

Would you not have traded your last two first round picks for Mack?


Considering how Pace has drafted in the first round, it was a great trade.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Furious Styles wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.

Hard to argue.

In hindsight he really has been more of a follower than a leader in his career.

Would you not have traded your last two first round picks for Mack?

I would have wanted to at the time. In hindsight it would have sucked to give Mack $20+ million a year when we got Za’Darius for $15 million a year and no draft pick compensation

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.

No.

Mitch and the offensive line were the problem all 16 games.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:27 pm 
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SF has to be ecstatic that they "lost" out on Mack.

They're paying their entire DL less than 12 million.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:28 pm 
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Furious Styles wrote:
SF has to be ecstatic that they "lost" out on Mack.

They're paying their entire DL less than 12 million.

A lot of teams dodged that $140 million bullet.

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 Post subject: Re: Khalil Mack Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:42 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mack was a problem. For that type of money you have to regularly make game changing plays. He took the last 12 games off.

No.

Mitch and the offensive line were the problem all 16 games.


Mack was a top 3 defensive player, he was supposed to be a difference maker.

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