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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:51 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Mack was scary good the first season with the Bears but he's no longer a game changer, and if the defense is just ok, the team won't be any good. Vegas has the Bears over/under on wins at 7 games.


The two best players on the defense, Mack and Hicks, are 30 and 31 respectively.

There aren't any rising dominant players emerging behind them.

The Bears are getting worse, not better.

As a result, my guess is that Pace will try to save his job by trading up in the draft and selecting a quarterback in the first round.


I think Roquan Smith has shown himself to be dominant and is only three years in the league.


He has definitely had some dominant games, but I don't think he's been consistent enough to call him a dominant player.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:54 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Brick wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Not saying anybody here specifically does this, but I think there’s a tendency within the fan base to deem a pick successful if the guy ends up starting.

Have a scroll through the past 6 drafts:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /draft.htm

How many of these guys have been integral to the Bears “success” during Pace’s tenure?

The Bears were 28-20 the last 3 years. There has to be some reason the Bears have at least been a good team over that time period. We know the bad moves by Pace, and there are a lot. What saved him? Is it truly the Mack trade?


The Bears have not been a good team over the past three years. They were very good in 2018 and mediocre in 2019 and 2020.

Again, a GM who fields one winning team in six seasons is not a success.

It's not saying that Pace is a success. It's about how Pace has made a large number of terrible decisions but he has undoubtedly improved the team despite those as his time here has gone on. We can project that he is going to return us to what we were prior to him being hired but there still has to be a reason why the Bears have been an above average team for the last 3 years. The answer may be "It was a one year fluke" or the answer may be Mack is that good to make an average team elite, and a bad team average.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:52 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Mack was scary good the first season with the Bears but he's no longer a game changer, and if the defense is just ok, the team won't be any good. Vegas has the Bears over/under on wins at 7 games.


The two best players on the defense, Mack and Hicks, are 30 and 31 respectively.

There aren't any rising dominant players emerging behind them.

The Bears are getting worse, not better.

As a result, my guess is that Pace will try to save his job by trading up in the draft and selecting a quarterback in the first round.


I think Roquan Smith has shown himself to be dominant and is only three years in the league.


He has definitely had some dominant games, but I don't think he's been consistent enough to call him a dominant player.



I agree with TM.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:45 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Mack was scary good the first season with the Bears but he's no longer a game changer, and if the defense is just ok, the team won't be any good. Vegas has the Bears over/under on wins at 7 games.


The two best players on the defense, Mack and Hicks, are 30 and 31 respectively.

There aren't any rising dominant players emerging behind them.

The Bears are getting worse, not better.

As a result, my guess is that Pace will try to save his job by trading up in the draft and selecting a quarterback in the first round.


I think Roquan Smith has shown himself to be dominant and is only three years in the league.


He has definitely had some dominant games, but I don't think he's been consistent enough to call him a dominant player.


He doesn't make the splash plays at a high rate, but he was consistently really good to great last year. It appears that his mental issues are being treated well.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:05 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Brick wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Bears were 28-20 the last 3 years. There has to be some reason the Bears have at least been a good team over that time period. We know the bad moves by Pace, and there are a lot. What saved him? Is it truly the Mack trade?
There has to be some reason that the Bears are 42-54 and have not won a playoff game under Pace.
I used the last 3 years because the Bears have clearly improved from when he took over. What is the reason for this improvement? It takes a while for a GM to turnover a bad roster so it isn't out of the question to lessen the blame at the start. The hiring of Nagy is an easy time to divide the Bears from "New GM rebuild" to "let's win" though it's fair to point out that they weren't good for the 3 years of the first coach.

You used 3 years because one season skews the data. There has to be some reason they haven’t been a good team the last 2 seasons.

The classic sample size argument.

Thanks for making my point.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:46 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Brick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Brick wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Bears were 28-20 the last 3 years. There has to be some reason the Bears have at least been a good team over that time period. We know the bad moves by Pace, and there are a lot. What saved him? Is it truly the Mack trade?
There has to be some reason that the Bears are 42-54 and have not won a playoff game under Pace.
I used the last 3 years because the Bears have clearly improved from when he took over. What is the reason for this improvement? It takes a while for a GM to turnover a bad roster so it isn't out of the question to lessen the blame at the start. The hiring of Nagy is an easy time to divide the Bears from "New GM rebuild" to "let's win" though it's fair to point out that they weren't good for the 3 years of the first coach.

You used 3 years because one season skews the data. There has to be some reason they haven’t been a good team the last 2 seasons.

The classic sample size argument.

Thanks for making my point.

What point was that? The discussion was if Pace has improved the Bears in his time here even with a significant amount of bad moves. The argument being presented was about three seasons compared to another three seasons and the time before that and your response was "Looks a lot worse if we don't count one of those three seasons". Well yeah, Aaron Rodgers looks a lot worse as a quarterback if we throw out the year he won the Super Bowl too.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:40 am 
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Ryan Pace: The Aaron Rodgers of GMs. That's certainly a take.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:42 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Ryan Pace: The Aaron Rodgers of GMs. That's certainly a take.


If only it was true.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:48 am 
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Brick wrote:
The discussion was if Pace has improved the Bears in his time here even with a significant amount of bad moves.
I'm not sure he has. He has the worst win% as a Bears GM over the last twenty years.


Ryan Pace .438 (0 playoff wins)
Phil Emery .479 (0 playoff wins)
Jerry Angelo .540 (3 playoff wins)

And I get it. After Emery left and with the Trestman debacle, the Bears were nearly at rock bottom. But even Emery had a double digit win team, and another that was one play away from winning a division.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:52 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Ryan Pace: The Aaron Rodgers of GMs. That's certainly a take.

I have to respect that level of redirection of an argument. I was clearly saying they were the same and I will argue incessantly with you that Aaron Rodgers and Ryan Pace are the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:57 am 
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Interesting. In terms of Super Bowl Championships, nobody has done less with more than Aaron Rodgers and the Chicago Bears franchise.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:48 am 
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I really liked Pace's plan going in. According to him he planned to:

A - Stay put and get a good player
B - Move up if a QB was there to be had
C - Move up if they identified another position player they felt had value to be had

He really narrowed down his potential options from 3 (Move up/Move down/Stay) to 2. Nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:53 am 
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He went after the one position that can turn around a franchise for a decade. No other player could individually impact an NFL team like a starting QB. I am actually excited now to see Fields. I would love for that to work out and have Nagy and Pace get extensions. No way I am rooting against my team just to see Pace get fired.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:55 am 
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denisdman wrote:
He went after the one position that can turn around a franchise for a decade. No other player could individually impact an NFL team like a starting QB. I am actually excited now to see Fields. I would love for that to work out and have Nagy and Pace get extensions. No way I am rooting against my team just to see Pace get fired.


Exactly my brother. Why the hell would I automatically hate picks or hope for my team to lose just because Pace or Nagy. Living your life like that is weird.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:24 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:30 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:



Wasn't he the racist WR on Philly or something?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:30 pm 
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Plenty reasons to fire Pace but a 5th rounder from 3 drafts ago not making the roster is hardly one of them. Do better!


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:31 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:



Wasn't he the racist WR on Philly or something?


That was Riley Cooper(white guy) not even close :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:43 pm 
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Both six round picks Graham Jr and Dazz Newsome don't' make the 53 man roster. Not good Pace.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:59 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Both six round picks Graham Jr and Dazz Newsome don't' make the 53 man roster. Not good Pace.



No, it isn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:00 pm 
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:lol: :lol: He sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:06 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Both six round picks Graham Jr and Dazz Newsome don't' make the 53 man roster. Not good Pace.



No, it isn't.

They really pimped that Dazz Newsome guy as the next savior :lol: whoops!


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:20 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Brick wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Not saying anybody here specifically does this, but I think there’s a tendency within the fan base to deem a pick successful if the guy ends up starting.

Have a scroll through the past 6 drafts:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /draft.htm

How many of these guys have been integral to the Bears “success” during Pace’s tenure?

The Bears were 28-20 the last 3 years. There has to be some reason the Bears have at least been a good team over that time period. We know the bad moves by Pace, and there are a lot. What saved him? Is it truly the Mack trade?


The Bears have not been a good team over the past three years. They were very good in 2018 and mediocre in 2019 and 2020.

Again, a GM who fields one winning team in six seasons is not a success.

It's not saying that Pace is a success. It's about how Pace has made a large number of terrible decisions but he has undoubtedly improved the team despite those as his time here has gone on. We can project that he is going to return us to what we were prior to him being hired but there still has to be a reason why the Bears have been an above average team for the last 3 years. The answer may be "It was a one year fluke" or the answer may be Mack is that good to make an average team elite, and a bad team average.



Cmon dude, year 7 and Not A Single Playoff win

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:28 pm 
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Charles Snowden and Deiter Eiselen got cut too. Who the fuck did make the roster?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:21 am 
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A few guys flashed some ability in the pre season, Fields most notably, and if he's good it covers up a ton of failures, but Gipson looked to have developed a bit, Borom seems to at least have the ability to play RT, and have to think guys like Kmet will be better this year.

The opinion of many of the posters here is that Pace/Nagy have at least a few years, and that is likely correct, but wonder if a 4-5 win season gets both guys launched? That said, this year is all about Fields and his development, it is almost like this year has been written off by ownership. While other franchises are starting rookie QB's because they want to speed up the evaluation process and figure out if they have something so they can build around the young QB while he's still on a rookie deal, the Bears seem content to do things the old fashioned way, there is always that doubt in the back of your mind that this franchise will go nowhere under the current ownership.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:41 am 
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Clawmaster wrote:
A few guys flashed some ability in the pre season, Fields most notably, and if he's good it covers up a ton of failures, but Gipson looked to have developed a bit, Borom seems to at least have the ability to play RT, and have to think guys like Kmet will be better this year.

The opinion of many of the posters here is that Pace/Nagy have at least a few years, and that is likely correct, but wonder if a 4-5 win season gets both guys launched? That said, this year is all about Fields and his development, it is almost like this year has been written off by ownership. While other franchises are starting rookie QB's because they want to speed up the evaluation process and figure out if they have something so they can build around the young QB while he's still on a rookie deal, the Bears seem content to do things the old fashioned way, there is always that doubt in the back of your mind that this franchise will go nowhere under the current ownership.

It would be very bears-like to draft a 1st round QB, put him under the tutelage of a bunch of dumbasses for a year, launch those guys and then have the QB reset everything in year 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:09 am 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Clawmaster wrote:
A few guys flashed some ability in the pre season, Fields most notably, and if he's good it covers up a ton of failures, but Gipson looked to have developed a bit, Borom seems to at least have the ability to play RT, and have to think guys like Kmet will be better this year.

The opinion of many of the posters here is that Pace/Nagy have at least a few years, and that is likely correct, but wonder if a 4-5 win season gets both guys launched? That said, this year is all about Fields and his development, it is almost like this year has been written off by ownership. While other franchises are starting rookie QB's because they want to speed up the evaluation process and figure out if they have something so they can build around the young QB while he's still on a rookie deal, the Bears seem content to do things the old fashioned way, there is always that doubt in the back of your mind that this franchise will go nowhere under the current ownership.

It would be very bears-like to draft a 1st round QB, put him under the tutelage of a bunch of dumbasses for a year, launch those guys and then have the QB reset everything in year 2.


:lol:

Unfortunately I think that's absolutely what will happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:22 am 
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And the year 2 reset will be with some dipshit defensive minded coach :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:24 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
And the year 2 reset will be with some dipshit defensive minded coach :lol:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Pace
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:25 am 
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Perfect choice

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