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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:02 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
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I still think the Bears could get the 78 off Related's hands and make it work, especially since Reinsdorf's request for a new stadium was a wet fart and he promptly pivoted to developing around the UC instead. It's really the only logical place for the Bears to build. I can imagine something akin to Seattle's stadium, where there's an overhang for the seats but the field is still exposed to the elements.

Isn’t that property actually owned by an Iraqi terrorist?

I thought Related is just the prospective developer but the actual owner is a guy who can’t legally enter the country. I don’t know how Ginny would feel about that.


https://archive.ph/odjGM
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In 2005, Auchi’s attempts to enter the United States were blocked when the State Department refused him a visa as he was preparing to invest in the land, which was owned at the time by Tony Rezko, a political fixer for then-Gov. Rod Blagojevich. Rezko later went to prison, convicted in a kickback scheme involving state deals, and Auchi bought out Rezko, who needed the money for his legal bills.

The State Department also rejected Auchi's later attempt at a visa in 2014. In both 2005 and 2014, the State Department cited unspecified "crimes of moral turpitude" as the reason for rejecting Auchi's visa requests, according to court records.

Federal officials never revealed why they rejected Auchi’s visa application, which happened after a French court convicted him of fraud in an oil scandal. He was fined and sentenced to prison for 15 months, though the sentence was suspended and he never did any time in that case.
Auchi did serve two years in prison after he and 76 others — including Saddam Hussein, at the time a young member of Iraq's Ba'ath Party — were convicted of attempting to assassinate Iraq’s prime minister in 1959. Hussein was sentenced to hang but fled the country. He was Iraq’s president from 1979 to 2003, when the United States and its allies invaded Iraq. Hussein was captured by U.S. troops and executed in 2006 in Iraq for crimes against humanity.


So he did some light terrorism. Who hasn't.

I dunno. Gotta do something with that land, and I don't sense any burning desire to subsidize another new stadium for the White Sox. Get the land out from under Saddam Hussein's co-conspirator, unload Arlington Park, and maybe the Bears can build a stadium within their means, even if it can't attract the mythical Final Fours that every new stadium says it's going to get.

2005.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:59 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Kevin White was saying things....


I didn't realize this guy was involved, too?

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he'd do a better job

Warren. Ooopsies.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 5:36 pm 
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https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/09/ ... al-keegan/

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The new stadium, which would hold 60,000 to 70,000 fans for football, is a dull structure by any architectural standard. Sitting within yards of the Lake Michigan shore, the stadium would offer no acknowledgement of this prime locale. Its primary nod to Chicago would be an enormous window at its north end placed to frame the downtown skyline. Little else would acknowledge the building’s place in the world, much less this city. If a view of the Loop is the most important thing to the Bears and NFL, that could be done elsewhere in the city, without using public lakefront land.

I will give them this: The Chicago Bears are thinking big.

But they’re playing with the house’s money.

And we are the house.


Let’s be clear about what’s driving what. A private corporation is looking to mold a large portion of Chicago’s precious lakefront into an entertainment district that supports its private operations. Sure, there might be a public-private component to some of the new facilities, but Chicago has historically kept private ventures off the public lands of the lakefront.

The Bears occupancy of Soldier Field should remain the anomaly, not the norm. A facility tailor-made for fewer than a dozen days a year should not be driving the development of land dedicated to public use. The Bears’ suggestions of further development demonstrate a vision of public land as a commercial zone similar to Navy Pier. These are exactly the types of development that Montgomery Ward, Burnham and generations of Chicago’s civic visionaries have worked to keep off our beloved lakefront.

This new stadium and its associated facilities have no place on Chicago’s lakefront. Any number of large planned developments across the city could absorb this beast within their footprints: The 78, Lincoln Yards, Bronzeville Lakefront (the old Michael Reese site) or the McCormick Place truck marshalling site.

It’s time to stop the Bears’ ill-conceived plans and send them back to the locker room.


Of those other sites, I think only the 78 would work for the Bears, but it would work exquisitely. Figure out a way for the Union Station south trains to stop at Roosevelt and you have the most transit-accessible stadium in the NFL. Roughly speaking, all (rail)roads would lead to the Bears. I feel like I cut through the Lincoln Yards site two or three times a month and in no way can I conceive of getting 65,000 people in and out of there by train, car, or old-timey dirigible. Michael Reese would have the same accessibility issues as Arlington Heights or Soldier Field where it's served by a single line in a hub-and-spoke distribution and the roads aren't much better. They gotta get that land out from under Reinsdorf. That's it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 5:50 pm 
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"Chicago’s precious lakefront"

Oh no, are we running out of lakefront in Chicago? Last time I was there it seemed like there were miles of it.

And an entertainment district on the lake? That would never work. Navy Pier failed and had to be destroyed.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 6:12 pm 
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It sounds like you were here last weekend.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 6:19 pm 
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Nas wrote:
It sounds like you were here last weekend.

Things change quickly.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:21 am 
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This is the most embarrassing episode in franchise history. Worse than the quarterback ineptitude, which at least can be chalked up to some combination of mysticism and the low success rate of quarterback prospects.

What was the most beloved institution in Chicago has burned a centuries worth of a goodwill with truly nothing to show for it.

They have been gifted public parkland which has turned out to be the most picturesque & beautiful location of any of the thirty-two teams in the league. They were given carte blanche to tear down an historic building because it didn’t suit their needs. Like spoiled rotten ingrate children they complain that this isn’t good enough and they need to build Football Disneyland, except it turns out they don’t have anywhere near the kind of money necessary to pull that off and need handouts to do it which they just expected to get.

Soldier Field is tied as the ninth newest stadium in the NFL with Philadelphia. Call us in twenty years if you want a new one.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:11 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Oh no, are we running out of lakefront in Chicago? Last time I was there it seemed like there were miles of it.


Well, this is one way to see the world.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:22 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Brick wrote:
Oh no, are we running out of lakefront in Chicago? Last time I was there it seemed like there were miles of it.


Well, this is one way to see the world.

What utility is there in the land used currently by Soldier Field, including the parking lots, that isn't already being provided by the miles and miles of coastline already in Chicago? It's a big city. Big cities have buildings near water. If someone wants open coastline on Lake Michigan they can find some on the 1,600 miles of coastline on Lake Michigan. They don't need the .3 miles that the stadium uses.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 2:02 pm 
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Are they really lakefront?

Yes, they are east of the Drive but they are really hemmed in by the marina there. In between Soldier Field and actual wide open Lake Michigan are a few museums and/or parking lots. Its a gorgeous spot, really couldn’t be much better, but they aren’t playing on the beach.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:32 pm 
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Randolph to Roosevelt east of Michigan is what's considered the protected lakefront. The Museum Campus, Northerly Island, Soldier Field, and the proposed Great Value Allegiant Stadium are all south of Roosevelt, though, and that hasn't stopped Friends of the Parks from patrolling that area as well, so in practice it's more like down to McCormick Place or the Stevenson interchange.

And that's fine. And no, most Great Lakes cities don't have heavy development on their waterfronts. Milwaukee's is similar to ours. The St. Louis riverfront outside of the Arch is desolate. Toronto does, but Toronto has never seen a patch of land it couldn't put a shitty glass-and-steel highrise on.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:55 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
And that's fine. And no, most Great Lakes cities don't have heavy development on their waterfronts. Milwaukee's is similar to ours. The St. Louis riverfront outside of the Arch is desolate. Toronto does, but Toronto has never seen a patch of land it couldn't put a shitty glass-and-steel highrise on.
St. Louis doesn't count. It's a river town. Who wants to look out at a river?

I said big cities and not Milwaukee.

Still though, the point isn't really to compare ourselves to Milwaukee and Holland. It's that Chicago has a massive amount of lakefront and somehow this small portion of land is sacred and not only shouldn't have a stadium on it but it also shouldn't have a year round entertainment district and instead should have, I don't know, grass and probably a few benches, even though there is exactly that within a 10 minute walk that is big enough to handle tens of thousands of people.

I truly don't get the vision here. I get it for an apartment complex but these are all year round use venues that would get a lot more use than a place where maybe you'll have some people sitting on benches after a walk. Maybe we just get rid of the whole skyline and turn all of Chicago into a green space.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:04 pm 
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Brick wrote:
I truly don't get the vision here. I get it for an apartment complex but these are all year round use venues that would get a lot more use than a place where maybe you'll have some people sitting on benches after a walk. Maybe we just get rid of the whole skyline and turn all of Chicago into a green space.

Well, that's just it. Once you open the door to putting a Rosemont on the lake for the enrichment of the Bears, why stop there? Why not build the apartment complex? Why does Northerly Island need to be a nature preserve when it's all just landfill anyway? Think of how cool a seafood restaurant there would be.

You can't just measure use by how many people click the turnstiles. Grant Park and the museums are of tremendous public use the way they are. They don't need a Bears-themed strip mall.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:16 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Well, that's just it. Once you open the door to putting a Rosemont on the lake for the enrichment of the Bears, why stop there? Why not build the apartment complex? Why does Northerly Island need to be a nature preserve when it's all just landfill anyway? Think of how cool a seafood restaurant there would be.
An apartment complex isn't public use though. A stadium and entertainment district is. We have one on Navy Pier.

Again, what is the other option? Some grass? Tear down Soldier Field and replace it with what? An entertainment district is going to be far more impactful and useful than some grass. It doesn't mean you have to bulldoze the entire lakefront.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:42 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
And that's fine. And no, most Great Lakes cities don't have heavy development on their waterfronts. Milwaukee's is similar to ours. The St. Louis riverfront outside of the Arch is desolate. Toronto does, but Toronto has never seen a patch of land it couldn't put a shitty glass-and-steel highrise on.
St. Louis doesn't count. It's a river town. Who wants to look out at a river?

I said big cities and not Milwaukee.

Still though, the point isn't really to compare ourselves to Milwaukee and Holland. It's that Chicago has a massive amount of lakefront and somehow this small portion of land is sacred and not only shouldn't have a stadium on it but it also shouldn't have a year round entertainment district and instead should have, I don't know, grass and probably a few benches, even though there is exactly that within a 10 minute walk that is big enough to handle tens of thousands of people.

I truly don't get the vision here. I get it for an apartment complex but these are all year round use venues that would get a lot more use than a place where maybe you'll have some people sitting on benches after a walk. Maybe we just get rid of the whole skyline and turn all of Chicago into a green space.


Slippery slope. First a bean then a spaceship on Soldier Field then Six Flags on steroids up and down the lake.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:08 pm 
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I don't believe Chicagoans are going unentertained without letting the Bears develop the lakefront to their whims.

I would expect Soldier Field to continue to exist in some scaled-down form after the Bears leave, probably for high school football, soccer, and concerts (kind of taking the place of Northerly Island, which seems barely tolerated by the park district and by people who have to get in and out of it). If they want to convert it to "grass with some benches for people to sit," that would be fine, too. It's a hideous building.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:10 pm 
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Just like the Lucas Museum of How Cool George Lucas Is, just build somewhere else.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:13 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Just like the Lucas Museum of How Cool George Lucas Is, just build somewhere else.

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Well, at least we know that grass can grow there.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:30 pm 
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The Bears are not going anywhere. No level of state or city government wants to chip in for their vanity project and without public assistance the McCaskeys are either unqualified to borrow the money or unable/unwilling to afford the interest. If history is any indication we are within a quarter or two of a pronounced economic downturn, which just sinks their chances further.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:36 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I don't believe Chicagoans are going unentertained without letting the Bears develop the lakefront to their whims.

I would expect Soldier Field to continue to exist in some scaled-down form after the Bears leave, probably for high school football, soccer, and concerts (kind of taking the place of Northerly Island, which seems barely tolerated by the park district and by people who have to get in and out of it). If they want to convert it to "grass with some benches for people to sit," that would be fine, too. It's a hideous building.
Oh good. High school sports there. Perfect plan.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 7:18 pm 
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USA wrote:
The Bears are not going anywhere. No level of state or city government wants to chip in for their vanity project and without public assistance the McCaskeys are either unqualified to borrow the money or unable/unwilling to afford the interest. If history is any indication we are within a quarter or two of a pronounced economic downturn, which just sinks their chances further.

I could see them timing it out so that they get a new place by 2034 when the lease expires, but who knows what could happen in the next ten years.

Brick wrote:
Oh good. High school sports there. Perfect plan.

All anyone does is complain about how terrible it is to go to Bears games at Soldier Field, so I guess nothing would be lost.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:09 pm 
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My prediction is that this drags out another 2-3 years in increasingly embarrassing fashion for the McCaskeys. They try to seize on Virginia’s death as a public relations sympathy boon, but it backfires and they get left basically at the mercy of two options: 1) Sell the team, admit defeat or 2) come to some sweetheart terms with the Park District where Soldier Field gets a midlife refresh on the Park District’s dime (some federal stimulus funds from the coming recession probably get thrown in) while the Bears play there basically for free while taking home more revenue. The city buries more of their parking lots and they get to commodify the tailgate experience much more.

But no dome, no Super Bowl, no football Disneyland. What the Bears do get is the monkey off their back and a place at the table when Chicago is hopefully experiencing a turnabout in its fortunes through the 2030’s.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:11 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Just like the Lucas Museum of How Cool George Lucas Is, just build somewhere else.

Image
Well, at least we know that grass can grow there.

I like that even as part of a marketing stunt, they can’t figure out how to situate the outfield to maximize the skyline view.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:12 pm 
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USA wrote:
My prediction is that this drags out another 2-3 years in increasingly embarrassing fashion for the McCaskeys. They try to seize on Virginia’s death as a public relations sympathy boon, but it backfires and they get left basically at the mercy of two options: 1) Sell the team, admit defeat or 2) come to some sweetheart terms with the Park District where Soldier Field gets a midlife refresh on the Park District’s dime (some federal stimulus funds from the coming recession probably get thrown in) while the Bears play there basically for free while taking home more revenue. The city buries more of their parking lots and they get to commodify the tailgate experience much more.

But no dome, no Super Bowl, no football Disneyland. What the Bears do get is the monkey off their back and a place at the table when Chicago is hopefully experiencing a turnabout in its fortunes through the 2030’s.

Ginny dies, remaining 40+ owners have to sell to satisfy the estate tax, Jeff Bezos buys all of Arlington Heights and gets to the most obvious, inevitable conclusion.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:32 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Just like the Lucas Museum of How Cool George Lucas Is, just build somewhere else.

Image
Well, at least we know that grass can grow there.

I like that even as part of a marketing stunt, they can’t figure out how to situate the outfield to maximize the skyline view.

They'd have everyone staring into the sun if they did.

The Sox have a fine view of the skyline from their little instagram staging area.
Image
No one goes to a baseball game to stare at a skyline for nine innings. it's fine.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:52 pm 
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USA wrote:
But no dome, no Super Bowl, no football Disneyland.

I despise the Super Bowl pitch, by the way. I truly believe that when the weather is nice, Chicago is the greatest city in the world. When it's not nice, it's probably like top 60 at best. Of course, the Super Bowl is comfortably situated in the most dismal time for the city. Nobody wants to be here in February. I certainly don't. We have a thread about surviving it and everything. Neither does anyone who has to come here for the game; they'd rather be in Miami or New Orleans or Las Vegas--even Inglewood doesn't really get the blood flowing.

The track record for repeat appearances on these new stadiums is not great. So it'd be precisely one Super Bowl. I don't think a Packers-Jaguars game or whatever would rank high on the list of great moments in Chicago sports history.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:26 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Just like the Lucas Museum of How Cool George Lucas Is, just build somewhere else.

Image
Well, at least we know that grass can grow there.

I like that even as part of a marketing stunt, they can’t figure out how to situate the outfield to maximize the skyline view.

They'd have everyone staring into the sun if they did.

The Sox have a fine view of the skyline from their little instagram staging area.
Image
No one goes to a baseball game to stare at a skyline for nine innings. it's fine.

The sun doesn’t set in the north. They’d be fine.

It’s a good spot but it’d be kind of bullshit to abandon that neighborhood after 120 years.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:45 pm 
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As I've said a thousand times, it's a perfect spot for the Bears. It's as close to a central location as possible; there's no better place to put a big stadium that draws people from all over.

I'm a baseball romantic and want the White Sox on 3500S forever just like I want the Cubs on 3600N. When the second Comiskey breaks down in 30 years, build the third one where the first one was. The North Side/South Side symmetry is something special and I'd hate to lose it.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:10 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
USA wrote:
But no dome, no Super Bowl, no football Disneyland.

I despise the Super Bowl pitch, by the way. I truly believe that when the weather is nice, Chicago is the greatest city in the world. When it's not nice, it's probably like top 60 at best. Of course, the Super Bowl is comfortably situated in the most dismal time for the city. Nobody wants to be here in February. I certainly don't. We have a thread about surviving it and everything. Neither does anyone who has to come here for the game; they'd rather be in Miami or New Orleans or Las Vegas--even Inglewood doesn't really get the blood flowing.

The track record for repeat appearances on these new stadiums is not great. So it'd be precisely one Super Bowl. I don't think a Packers-Jaguars game or whatever would rank high on the list of great moments in Chicago sports history.

Imagine forking over however many billions in public money just so the Bears can host 1 (one) Super Bowl where everyone who comes into town for it complains about how they wish it was just in Miami.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:20 pm 
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USA is America/Antarctica/Rhodesia, right?

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