Aren't some of these guys the propspects that were being "tossed around" in a deal the Braves were trying to complete for Peavy? I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'...........

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I don't think you can ever rule out Williams making a move like that, but I really do believe he's trying to rebuild the farm system/team on the fly. Plus, Peavy wants that option year picked up at $22 million.

Precisely. The 4 biggest games of the year for him (maybe of his career even) he wet the bed. Could not even make it out of the 4th inning. All the Sox asked of him was a medicore start- 7IP, 4R, 9H, something like that. At least keep the Sox in the game. @NYY, @MIN, CLE, @TB he did not do that, he got absolutely lit up. So, Kenny and Ozzie are probably thinking, "If we're in a playoff chase again next season, can we trust Javy?"

Answer: a resounding NO.

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Which Ozzie demonstrated by throwing him out there every 3 days down the stretch - all of them "big games". But we don't need to re-hash that anymore.

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This is a pretty good trade for the Sox. I would've liked to see them wait a little longer but Ole Kenny fell in love with Tyler Flowers during the AZ fall league and got his man. Acquiring Brent Lillibridge is a little confusing. He certainly upgrades the team speed but unless he can play CF this creates a glut of middle infielders. The other two in the deal are suspects that can be used in future trades.

Now Kenny needs to replace Javy's 200+ innings. I don't think it will be done by either Clayton Richard or Jeff Marquez so he needs to add a veteran starter either through a trade or free agency. Booner can be replaced in house by either Joseph Torres or Aaron Poreda though I'd like to see him remain a starter.

Catch 22. Ozzie took heat for marching a sucky Vazquez out there. Had he decided to go with Richard (and he flopped), he would have taken heat for starting a rookie in such big games when he has a proven veteran sitting on the bench.

If Quentin were healthy down the stretch, the Sox would have wrapped up that division 4 or 5 days before they did, and would have at least taken Tampa to a 5th game, and may have beat them.

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Mitigating factors: pitching on short rest for that entire period and all four of those teams were hot at the end of the season

I expect him to win 12-15 games, have a low 4 ERA and pitch 200 innings next year for Atlanta.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Mitigating factors: He has no balls and gets worse as games get bigger.

I like the move if:

the 220 innings 200ks can be replaced ,

more bullpen help is on the way,

and if one of these 2b/3b guys works out.



KW likes to stockpile young players to make bigger moves, so we'll see what happens.. i have a feeling there's more to be done...

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K's are overrated. I'd rather a half to a full point lower in ERA, and 4 or 5 more wins.

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they could be overrated, idk thats for the sabermetricians to look at... but on a below average defensive team, i'll take ks...

to me, the 200 ip/k thing is more important because it shows a guy can throw deep counts without fatiguing and wearing out your bullpen.

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It's impossible to truely evaluate this deal until a year or two from now. You have to see if any of the prospects pan out or not. However, just being rid of Vasquez and his contract, is already a positive. I agree, that Dye is next and will likely be dealt sooner, rather than later. I'll be very curious to see just how much of the money they will have cut from salaries is reinvested in new aquisitions and how much is just cut from the budget. I'll bet more than half is just kept in the till. The way things look, this may be a team that will be taking a 1-2 year period to develop young players, before they are ready to contend again. After this coming season Thome will be gone, then after him it will just be Konerko left, to dump. For those hoping to trade Konerko, with 2 bad seasons back to back, and a big contract, he is virtually untradeable-even if he did not have a no trade contract, which he does. While the younger players they are dealing for develop, expect a drop in the standings Sox fans. Thats not to say that Kenny is doing the wrong thing here. Just that younger players make more mistakes and need to adjust to the higher level of play. Kenny is right to do what he's doing, but it will mean that the Sox will likely slip in the standings in 2009. As a result...The Sox fans will whine in 2009!!

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Go Cubs!!!!

For this to happen, the Indians and Tigers must flip thier W-L totals from last year. I doubt that will happen.

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Innings pitched & Strikeouts = OVER RATED. If you lose the game what does it matter? If the guy was making low money then great, you have a a little money in to protect your pen. Once the guy gets paid big bucks he better do more than pitch a lot of innings and lose games. Anyone from the farm system can pitch innings if you aren't going to win the game.

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Paws Up

Innings is not overrated. Javy has shown he is durable if nothing else.

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How so? If you're not winning the game what does it matter. You can throw anybody out there for $1mil a year and he can pitch 9 innings every fifth game. Are you going to win many, no - But he pitched the innings.

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Paws Up

200 IP shows that you are keeping your team in the game (for the most part), and that you do not spend time on the DL.

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Sabathia @ 1mil a year?

Murph had a guy on from Baseball America, and he didn't sound too enthusiastic about Flowers. He said Flowers is the 7th best prospect in the Braves' system, and would be 3rd or 4th for the Sox (behind Beckham, the new Cuban guy, and possibly Poreda). In his view, Flowers is suspect defensively and won't hit for a high average in the majors. I didn't hear him say anything about Flowers' slugging potential. Inexplicably, Murph cut him off when he started to talk about the other prospects.

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Yes, and his record shows that they lose the majority of those games. So now you're out a ton of money and 1 game. You can manage a loss for a lot less money.

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Paws Up

Being the 7th rated prospect in the Braves organization is nothing to sneeze about because they are absolutely stacked with minor league talent. Being 4th on the Sox isn't bad either because they are very top heavy. Beckham, Viciedo and Poreda are all legit but there is a big drop off after those 3 (now 4).

There are MAJOR questions about Flowers' abilty to be a full time catcher. He doesn't have a strong arm and he's not very good at blocking pitches but he can hit the hell out of the ball so there will always be a place for him to play. If he has to move to 1B it will hurt his value a bit because big-time offensive catchers are very rare. I like the deal but as I said earlier I want to see how Kenny replaces Javy's 200+ innings.

One caveat to Flowers' game is his 50 game suspension for the use of PED's that he served at the beginning of the '07 season. Flowers, for his part, admitted to the mistake saying that he used bad judgment as a member of Chipola CC's baseball team. Didn't Quentin use Performance Enhancing Drugs??????

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Sox seal Vazquez deal with Braves
Six-player trade nets Chicago four talented prospects
By Kelly Thesier / MLB.com


Javier Vazquez's time in Chicago has come to an end.

On Thursday morning, the White Sox and Braves announced the six-player trade that will send Vazquez and left-handed reliever Boone Logan to Atlanta in exchange for infielder Brent Lillibridge, catcher Tyler Flowers, third baseman Jon Gilmore and left-handed pitcher Santos Rodriguez.

The two teams agreed to terms on the deal Tuesday night, but it was not finalized until all players passed their physicals.

By trading Vazquez, the White Sox have freed up a considerable amount of money while also going with the club's plan to go younger and more athletic with its roster. Vazquez, 32, is under contract through 2010 and will earn $11.5 million in each of the next two seasons.

There had been musings all offseason that the White Sox would move Vazquez, not only due to payroll but because his manager, Ozzie Guillen, publicly criticized the pitcher when he struggled down the stretch in 2008. The right-hander went 0-4 with a 13.22 ERA in his final four starts, including a loss in Game 1 of the American League Divisional Series.

But the White Sox will also have to figure out how to replace Vazquez in the rotation. Despite his recent struggles, Vazquez provided the White Sox with more than 200 innings in each of the previous three seasons.

Currently, the only three pitchers locked in for the White Sox rotation next season are left-handers Mark Buehrle and John Danks and right-hander Gavin Floyd.

The White Sox might now be searching for pitching, but this trade gives them more than enough young infielders. Lillibridge, 25, will join Josh Fields, Wilson Betemit, Alexei Ramirez, Jayson Nix, Chris Getz and Dayan Viciedo in competing for three open infield spots. Ramirez, who is being moved to shortstop, appears to be the only lock for a job right now.

Lillibridge entered the 2008 season as one of the top prospects in the Braves' farm system. Although he struggled offensively last season, hitting just .220 in 90 games with Triple-A Richmond, Lillibridge brings a tremendous amount of speed to the Sox roster. He's been successful in 127 of his 162 stolen base attempts in the Minors.


The White Sox also added talent in areas other than the infield with the trade. Flowers, 22, is considered to be the most highly touted prospect in the deal, and he caught the attention of many people, including White Sox general manager Ken Williams, while playing in the Arizona Fall League this year. Flowers batted .387 with 12 home runs and 23 RBIs in 20 games for the Mesa Solar Sox. The catcher was coming off a season in which he was named to the Carolina League All-Star team after hitting .288 with 17 home runs and 88 RBIs at high Class A Myrtle Beach.

But the 6-foot-4, 245-pound Flowers, like the other two players the Sox acquired in the deal, is still considered to be a few years away from the Majors. Scouts have raved about Flowers' offensive potential, yet they say he needs to improve defensively if he is to catch at the Major League level.

Gilmore, 20, hit .186 in 27 games with Class A Rome this past season. While with Rookie-level Danville in 2007, he hit .337 with four homers and a .473 slugging percentage.

Rodriguez, 20, went 1-2 with a 2.79 ERA in 14 relief appearances for the Gulf Coast League Braves this year. In 29 innings, he recorded 45 strikeouts and issued 13 walks.

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